Transwoman on women's ward

[Sallycinnamum]

Had a minor gynae procedure today but nevertheless was very anxious leading up to it.

Was wheeled back to the day ward to be greeted quite literally (started waving at me) by a transwoman in the bed opposite me.

There was no doubt he was a man and being completely immobile due to a spinal anaesthetic with no underwear on I asked the nurse to completely close the curtains so he couldn't look directly at me.

Spoke to a nurse who confirmed it wasn't a mixed ward.

I am so upset. I felt so vulnerable especially as I couldn't walk so had to pee into a bedpan in clear earshot of him.

I've emailed PALS but I feel so bloody fed up of it all. Had a man next to me in the M&S lingerie changing rooms a few weeks ago and was made to feel like a total bigot when I complained to the staff.

Link to the single sex services section of the EQA2010 where separate female and male hospital wards are specifically mentioned -

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

And as the Supreme Court judgement clarified, male and female mean exactly that. Not the legal fiction of a GRC. Not the ideological capture of self id.

I agree with you that people who identify as the opposite sex shouldn’t automatically get the side room. They are needed for more important reasons than that.

Yes! Who needs curtains shut, when you’re in a backless gown, bleeding and vulnerable you should welcome some male attention!

’She’! 🤣🤣🤣

I think that Wes Streeting has been speaking to lots of people with different views and was very concerned to hear about a trans man who was assaulted on a male ward and then harassed (for appearing male) on the female ward! I don't know the exact case details but I believe this is why he has referenced single rooms would be very appropriate in increasing numbers of trans cases

Do you usually think women confirming their rights to single sex spaces is obnoxious? Or are you blinded by personal bias.

I think the problem here is the lie at the heart of it all. Women on the women’s ward should know that even the manly appearing individuals are women, because single sex is respected.

You can't actually know this, can you.
You cannot categorically say that you can tell the sex of every person you encounter.

Such naïveté.
And this person is not, and can never be, female, the definition of which for mammals is "being of the sex that produces large gametes (ova)" and which is able to gestate and bear young.
(This does not mean that all women can bear children, clearly some cannot, but that they are a member of the sex which has that ability.)
This person merely says they have a penis but likes to present as a woman.

She’s quite clear that she’s speaking from her own personal experience based on her own subjective perception 🙄

No patient should be left uncovered with curtains open so I'm not entirely sure what the issue is. The OP didn't have to flash herself!

The only person who has flashed themselves is you - who have shown your arse with that comment. Utterly abhorrent.

So again I ask why with all the many many comings and going that happened at my huge student house share isn't there a single story that goes 'oh remember when Mary had to be straight for a night because what she thought was a woman turned out to be a fella and she was too polite to say anything' or 'remember when James ended up with a bloke and screamed when he found out.'

People can tell because men and women smell different and walk differently, stand differently, sit differently, sound different, have different size feet and hands and different shape wrists and hips and shoulders and hundreds of other tiny little differences that when looked at individually aren't necessarily a given away but taken together indicate sex.

That is not the law. The law is that a single sex space or service is reserved for people of that biological sex. Not self-identified or certificated sex.

I see very few trans people yet on Mumsnet they’re seemingly lurking everywhere, having gone through all the trauma of becoming trans for the sole purpose of raping biological women.

And now seemingly they’re getting themselves ill to gain access to women on female wards.

What a hugh amount of effort they seem to put in when they could just rape women in the ways customarily employed by most men.

What a hugh amount of effort they seem to put in when they could just rape women in the ways customarily employed by most men.

This old chestnut? Women - you will be raped anyway, so no need to defend your single sex spaces! If our half naked, post surgical procedure, vulnerable bigoted selves are not worthy of single sex spaces then how about rape crisis centres? Prisons? Are we allowed to keep men out of those? If so, why?

Even more bollocks….

He is NOT female! Stop with the gaslighting pish.

He has no right to be on that ward. Gender is regressive bullshit and has no relevance to single sex spaces, what with sex and gender not being the same thing.

And fuck right off claiming that @Sallycinnamum was flashing herself. Your comments are utterly repulsive

I’m so sorry op. I’m having a gyne procedure done soon and I’d cry, it’s such a vulnerable feeling already and I don’t like the hand waving at you one
bit. I would never have done that, maybe a polite smile if we made eye contact but the wave I find jarring? I can’t imagine women would have done this? At the weekend my child saw a trans person in full makeup and was staring and they shouted to my young child across the street HAPPY PRIDE, LIKE MY MAKEUP? It made me feel scared honestly. It felt really antagonistic like they wanted me to start an argument or something with them and your experience is reminding me of that. Sorry OP.

I am really sorry you felt vulnerable at a time you should have felt safe. It may be an unfortunate coincidence, but the M&S incident, is making you appear like you are a little obsessed with the trans subject. I had never met anyone trans until recently I was in the med-spa for laser and was waiting in reception when a person I would have identified as a man as he was bald and dressed as a man, started a conversation and made it clear he identified as a woman and was talking what I’d class as girl talk. He was there for laser hair removal for his journey to transition. I left feeling sorry for him, he was making a real effort to feel included in a predominantly women’s only space and I felt no threat. Obviously it’s a different arena and you should feel safe in hospital, but it’s made me think I need to be more open and not see trans people as a threat.

Also, I went for an echo of my heart recently. It was a young male who did the scan and with me having large breasts I was practically naked from the waist up and he had to have his hand under my breast for ten minutes. There was no one else present in the room. But I never felt uncomfortable and he was very professional and reassuring. There are people who are a threat to us, but most people are just muddling along themselves.

Utter pish. No one is saying that. We are saying they are men so like the other men shouldn’t be in female single sex spaces.

I am really sorry you felt vulnerable at a time you should have felt safe. It may be an unfortunate coincidence, but the M&S incident, is making you appear like you are a little obsessed with the trans subject

With respect, she was in a very vulnerable situation, in a state of undress and unable to move, after a difficult procedure and feeling very uncomfortable that there was a man opposite. I don’t think she sounds obsessed and I’m not sure why you thought it would be reasonable to suggest so.

That’s great that you felt comfortable during your procedure, I hope it went well. I don’t think that that means other women should do though and I’m sure you agree that in that situation women should be able to request same sex care. Which is why it’s important we’re clear what sex means.

For what it’s worth, I had a breast MRI recently and while the MRI operator was male, they purposely had a woman to assist in placing me in the machine. I believe this was for both his and my comfort and protection.

😂I suppose you can often tell if you take their genes down.

The hospital situation I agree most women would feel unsafe and very unhappy and she shouldn’t have had to endure that. It’s just that two incidents relating to trans people does make someone sound preoccupied with a subject. I’m sure it’s a coincidence it’s just how to it can appear.

I guess sadly I’m so grateful to be receiving any form of care now on the nhs that we as women probably do put up and shut up too often. The man was very professional but that’s not to say it didn’t send my heart racing and made me very anxious. I didn’t feel I could speak up for fear of losing my appointment. So on reflection, good on the OP for having the nerve to speak out.

Of course not all ‘cisgender’ women, ie women, look the same. But they are all women. Men look and sound and act like men.

The Supreme Court has made it clear that men cannot be women and should not be on women’s wards.

Yes of course, and this is not paranoia.

I sympathise with all women who are treated so contemptuously by people who are meant to be looking after them.

Do you treat everyone with such contempt?