Helping with clearing up when at somebody's home for a meal.

[maryanne3]

Really interested in other people's views on this, as there is genuine split in my female friends. I have been keen on the idea of equality of gender roles, particularly with things like housework and childcare, ever since being a teenager. My partner and myself have always shared in a pretty pragmatic manner, and we also have equal earning power. Cooking and cleaning up is shared rigorously.

It always surprises me though when I go to, lets say 'more traditional' homes for dinner, where the woman will have done the cooking and "hostessing" while the chap limits himself to opening and pouring the odd bottle of wine, that there seems to be an expectation that the women of the group will get up and help the hostess clear up while the blokes sit around the table discussing football or whatever. This has so irritated me in the past that I have started refusing to budge; ignoring any gentle hints to the contrary, (I swear one 'more traditional' husband actually glares as at me because I am not helping his wife out, when I know for a fact he will not have lifted a finger, before, during or after the meal). There is a side of me which feels bad; the poor woman is being left to do it all herself, but honestly, why can't everybody help and halve the time of the chore?

I do think of suggesting this sometimes, but I do not want to make a scene. Am I rude, or am I right to stick to my guns?

You probably need better less sexist friends tbh.

Possibly, I am in my 60s though, and my views were perhaps less general when we were in our formative years.

Ah right but even so I'm in my 50s and my dh wouldn't dream of sitting back whilst the women cleared up.

I feel similarly and my partner will get up and help instead. Makes the point without leaving it all the one person

Maybe as an alternative, when it comes to clearing up time, you could jump up to help while simultaneously saying lets all help clean up so it is more efficient, DH why dont you take the plates into the kitchen and host why dont you bring the glasses..that way you make your point and the hostess get helped and you are modeling the behaviour you think is appropriate which makes it more likely they will take you point and not just think you are unhelpful.

Its obviously how your friends marriages are set up perhaps the women like hosting/running about after men, it's not for me though.

Rather than not helping, personally I’d get Dh on board and both of us help. Which is, indeed what we would both naturally do (50s)

I know what you mean. There are still many couples like this. My DH is quite traditional I suppose. He's an Indian man brought up in a female heavy household. They all treated him like a king! He will still help clear up at friend's houses to an extent - such as taking dirty plates and bowls from the table to the sink. Basically it's the same that I do. I wouldn't really do the washing up unless I was staying with someone but I'd help tidy up a bit, put things in the dishwasher.

We always help when at friends and family homes. I love a good clean so doing the dishes, wiping surfaces and even hoovering and mopping are all part of my way of saying thank you. DH will always help too eg bringing plates to the sink etc. In our own home he’ll do more when we have people over. I think with us tho it’s a cultural thing - sitting down whilst your host cleans up is considered really bad manners, as is not bringing a dish and a gift for the hosts

We have a "whoever cooked doesn't do the washing up" rule. The only time my PILs have ever stayed over and eaten, I'd cooked, helped clear the table and then sat down with a glass of wine. DH and MIL stayed in the kitchen. FIL was already sat down having not helped clear up. He asked me why I wasn't doing the washing up so DH could sit down. I pointed out that I'd cooked after finishing a six day working week that day whilst DH had had the day off and if he was that worried about DH he could get up off his arse and help.

He was evidently fuming but didn't get up. Just sat there quietly raging.

The cooking/serving drinks split makes sense. Drinks are rarely one and done and DH takes coats, finds chairs, children's toys / batteries whilst I cook.

After dinner is all hands on deck though.

Sorry OP, but I think you are rude to just sit there and not help. These friends are too entrenched in their ways to even realise the point you are trying to make. You certainly aren't going to change them with this tactic, or any other I suspect. All you are achieving is leaving the "hostess" with one less pair of helpful hands. To be fair you also ate the meal and drank the wine you were offered so it really wasn't that much of a protest was it.

There's no way dh would just sit and chat while the women cleared. We all muck in, except when we're at my parents' when we get the teens to do it.

The last time I was in a women & men situation like that was when the "hostess" instigated it and it was because she'd had a massive row with her dh before we arrived and wanted to have a good moan about it. They're divorced now - he was an absolute dick tbf.

...except that the bizarre 'clearing up situation' isn't clear until that is done.

...and why should I feel any more guilty than any of the male guests there, who, my guess is, do not even notice this moral pressure?

My dad and FIL are both in their 70s and for as long as I can remember my mum has cooked and my dad cleared up. Same with MIL and FIL. With DH and me it's the other way round. I loath cooking but happily clear up so we do that.

You're definitely right not to help if it's only the women doing so and that's the expectation.

My dad - he'd be in his late 90s now - always cleared up if mum cooked the dinner.

Personally I hate when guests start clearing up. I like to sit and chat at the table and have the 2 of us sort it out when the guests are gone. I particularly dislike when a guest starts clearing up without me.

In your case I ask your husband to please get up and start helping alongside you the next time this happens. His helping is a more effective protest than you not.

My DH would just know he had to help. I wouldn't have to say a word.

In fact height says I'll get these you go and chat with host.

If it bugs, it bugs you.
Personally I don’t care how couples divide chores and whatnot.
I don’t think it’s the hill to die on.

But I gotta say, I wouldn’t as a guest just sit on my ass and not help.
I don’t believe you are making a point and also comw off as rude.
Same goes to the men of course.
But you just add one more.
I really just couldn’t sit and do nothing, I rather just not go then.

My dh will always do the clearing up if I have cooked and if my friends are over he will pop in and say hi and if it's girls only he will come down and clear up for us

I agree with your sentiment. And my husband and I would always offer to help clear up when we are at other people’s houses.

But by refusing to join the wives I think that no-one would understand that you are making a feminist protest. The husbands will all think you are being a lazy woman, not helping all the others. And the other women will be all cussing you out in the kitchen thinking that you are a rude guest who thinks she is better than them. I get you I really do…… but your tactic of refusing to help is only going to go over their heads and alienate you from your friends. And people to conclude you are lazy and rude.

The only suitable tactic is to get your husband on board to jump in and help too, and to suggest to the other men to help too.

I suppose it depends on the company and how well you know them. I would be mortified if a guest started to help me clear up. They are my guest and I would treat them accordingly they are not staff. I also wouldn't help to clear up for the same reason.

I would stack things on the counter to be done later anyway or I would be missing out on my friends. The thought of people stacking my dishwasher incorrectly, clattering my plates and glasses around and trying to put leftovers in the fridge would be much worse to me than doing it later.

I think it would be like seeing the Wizard of Oz behind his curtain. All the loveliness of an evening spoiled by seeing the underwhelming back stage area.

I'm sorry I think this comes across as really rude in someone else's house. Definitely prompt your own dh subtly to help, but trying to organise everyone else risks getting the hosts back up.

But then I'm in the camp of hating guests who 'help' clear up. They just put things back in the wrong places or bug you about where things go. Annoying...

I'm not saying you should feel more guilty than the men. I'm just saying that your stance is completely lost on your friends and the situation is not going to change. If it was me, I would either tell them why I was refusing to help or stop accepting their hospitality.