Some people feel threatened by independent women?

[Sooooootired01]

What do you think?

I've noticed this, especially in some men. I guess they feel their masculinity is wrapped up in being the "big guy", the sole provider etc? But I also think it rings true for some women as well?

No and presumably you're not expecting to need to do this just yet.

My point is, even minimum wage jobs aren't easy to come by with more than a decade out of the workforce. Also, I think you over estimate how independent you can be on minimum wage.

That is dependant on a persons outgoings. I ran my own home from 21 to 26, admittedly not on minimum wage, but not earning mega bucks. My intentions wouldn't be to stay in a minimum wage job, my point was I would take whatever I could get at the time should I need to. The repayments on my house are more than manageable. I'd have a divorce settlement too.

@Grenwyn Absolutely each to his own, but I personally wouldn't want to be relying solely on anybody else financially without earning myself; to me that would feel like a loss of independence.

@Sooooootired01 I can see how some people may feel that way, I think that is largely determined by the type of partner a person has and the overall income into the household. Oddly enough I have much more freedom and confidence being out of employment than I ever had working. Many SAHM/housewives feel this way.

🙄

No, I don't think they are.

I think men just aren't attracted to masculine women. So they won't approach or have any interest in dating a woman who has the same traits as a man.

I doubt many of us would be particularly interested in a man who wanted to be a "house husband".

It's biology, not critical thinking.

@Hereyoume What would your "ideal man" do?

Successful women can't surely be feminine too, can they?!!!

There is a double standard. I think women can have careers and still be considered feminine, but men can't be a SAHD and considered masculine by society.

@Grenwyn My husband doesn't earn a lot in financial terms; he works in a caring profession predominantly done by women. He is one of two men in a very large team.
At home he does all of the cooking and shares the housework and childcare equally (I also work).
To me, that's a "real" man right there ❤️

By the sheer number of these threads you're making, perhaps you're not as secure in your own set up as you proclaim? Worry less about what other people think.

@Kinshipug What's the betting you rely on a man?

I don't like the terms 'real' man/woman anyway. What we can't deny is the typical characteristics of what makes a man masculine. Whilst my DH is the provider he also does his share of jobs around the house at the weekends usually DIY and mowing the lawn etc. Childcare is shared in the evenings and weekends. In terms of cleaning and laundry I have it all done by the weekend so we all have time to have fun and rest. We both 'work' all week, the difference is DH is earning and I'm not.

@Grenwyn Do you see your husband as more "masculine" because he is the sole provider? Does being a SAHM make you more "feminine"? I'm assuming your kids are preschool age.

@Sooooootired01 I suppose I do. I find drive, ambition being a leader rather than a follower, being protective, being dependable and reliable, all attractive qualities in a man. These are typically considered masculine characteristics.
I don't think my DH necessarily bases his view on my level of femininity upon my employment status but he certainly benefits from it. Being a housewife makes me personally feel more feminine as it frees up time for me to do things that are typically considered traditionally feminine.
The kids are at school so I have time to do lots of home cooking and baking which I love and everyone benefits from, I get to socialise more which makes me a happier person, I can have a pamper when I fancy it, I have time to make an effort with my appearance, the house is spotless which again makes me happy as I can't stand mess and clutter, I'm not stressed out and needing to moan about my shitty day at work. Basically it means the 'free time' we have in the evenings and weekends is genuine quality time not catching up on chores.

I realise what is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly but I would never have entertained the idea of a man that wasn't financially stable, not only because 'no mon, no fun' but also because I would assume he lacked the qualities or abilities I find attractive listed above.

@Grenwyn So in essence you "work" considerably less than your husband?
How would you feel if he didn't earn enough to support you all on his salary alone so you had to find employment?

@Sooooootired01 No, I'd say we 'work' about the same, it is just a different type of work. If I had to find employment then I would, but I don't have to so I don't.
Your second question is a total hypothetical as he would never not make enough to support us all, we are mortgage free and there are insurances in place in the worst case scenarios.

The traits that make us "successful" are the same traits that make men successful.

You don't get be in a senior position without hard work, you need to have an aggressive personality. I don't think many men want to be with the same personality type at home, as they do at work. You can disagree, and not acknowledge this? But it's true.

It's like saying that women find men who want to be house husbands intimidating.

Some men, who aren't very intelligent (notice I haven't said educated, they are very different things) may find that successful women remind them of their own lack of progress and consequently feel uncomfortable in the presence of such women. But that's not being intimidated, it's lack of self esteem.

My "ideal" man is the one I married.

I don’t have an aggressive personality, I have been successful by being personable but also able to make and communicate difficult decisions, but that’s not the same as being aggressive. My last boss (male) has very similar personality traits as me and is more successful again.

I think that everyone is entitled to an opinion, obviously, but personally I don't feel that "independence" be it in a man or a woman would be top of my list in terms of whether I enjoyed the person's company, or top of the list in terms of being beneficial to society.

I don't think that not being "independent" should be a put down, because society is mostly based on not having to do every single thing needed in life.
I personally am happy that my husband relies on me, as I do him, and that I am relied on by friends and other family.

I would not look down on the most independent of people, but I don't see the need to look up to them either. I am pleased for anyone who manages to live their life in a way that best suits them.

I have found this too.

I was recently rejected because I’m a single woman in her 30s who owns her own flat in London. The guy was renting as a lodger and I could literally sense a shift in him as soon as I mentioned my living situation.

It’s mildly depressing but it’s better that these men reveal themselves early on - it’s just the trash taking itself out.

@Grenwyn I'd love to find ft paid employment which allows me to pamper myself and socialise with friends during the week!!

@Sooooootired01 What is your point? You asked me if I worked as much as my DH and I answered that we work about the same, just one of us is in employment, well self employment, and the other is not.

What has that got to do with you working FT?

I earn about the same as you, so no more so than you do I suppose. But thing of an odd thing to obsess over.
But I'm not striving for independence. Nor do I think employment makes me superior.
FYI, if you want days free, night shifts pay quite well.

@Grenwyn I don't understand how staying at home with no kids at home is the equivalent to a ft job?

I told my counsellor that if I split with DH I would be very happy to be single and had no wish to look for a partner. She said that was "very sad" and implied it must mean I was depressed. Proper pissed me off.

Hire a handyman!

Much cheaper than having to divorce a manchild.