Secretly filmed videos of drunk northern women

[Northernnnnnn]

I haven't posted before, so apologies if this is the wrong place.

I keep seeing videos on my Facebook and Instagram from a few different accounts, of people secretly filming very drunk, mostly dressed with very few clothes, women on nights out in northern cities.
I had a further look and there seems to be quite a few accounts of I'm assuming men (I can't imagine any woman I know doing this but then I could be wrong!) just dedicated to this secret filming of women who seem to be walking home very drunk. There is even one video where the cameraman is literally filming a very drunk woman walking being followed by a very drunk man. Why wouldn't you step in and help??

I have so many problems with these videos I don't even know where to begin, but they have brought up a lot of bad memories and feelings for me, and I hoped the feminism board might be a good place to have a discussion around this.

Firstly, there is the issue of secretly filming women who are not in a fit state to know what is going on. There is a lot of skin on show- obviously it's the woman's choice what she wears, and I often went out as a teenager of wearing similar- but I can't imagine any of them would want videos of themselves in this state, with so much skin on show being broadcast to the whole world.

Then there's the issue that, from experience, a lot of these women are going to be under 18, and many under 16- I made loads of stupid decisions as a teenager, and was raped as a young teenager while walking home from a night out dressed similar to these women- obviously what I was wearing wasn't the issue, but the whole culture of this getting so drunk you don't even know what's going on, and the fact that someone might have filmed me. This is not very well articulated but it just really upsets me.

Then there is the stereotype of northern women. There seems to be this idea that northern women are 'scummy' and 'chavvy' (words taken from video comments). There is the dressing in this way, in the middle of winter, when all the men are dressed comfortably - I don't know.ow what my friends and I were thinking going out dressed up to look so much older trying to impress men who hadn't even brushed their hair. The group of girls I was friends with at this age all had similar life stories to myself, leaving home at 15, getting raped/sexually assulated, often at work. I know that some of the old friendship group are still going out, doing drugs, drinking now we are nearly 40, which again is their choice and fine, and I have no judgement, but I've just been really shaken by these videos, and I'm struggling to put my feelings on this into words.

Thank you if you managed to get through that!

I've seen these videos, and you're right. I've heard a mix of things about them actually, and I honestly don't know what to believe.

Firstly, many appear to be well aware of the camera, you often see the women looking directly at it, so I don't think it's some covert button cam, or the like.

There appear to also be two main types of videos... the pre-drunk videos, where the women are all glammed up, and the drunken videos. I'd 'heard' the pre-drunk ones are being used to promote some of the northern cities, and England as a whole (you know, attractive, sexy women etc). Obviously, the drunk ones are shaming videos. Then you have the ones that you mentioned, which are the following a drunken woman ones.

Women are entitled to wear what they want, and while filming isn't great, I think we should all be responsible adults (I presume if they're drinking, they're over 18). If they show skin, they're going to get attention, if they get totally drunk, they're also going to get attention. I don't think anyone can say a miniskirt in the frozen North is a comfort thing, it's all for style and attention. You can't stop people filming, and I think there are just as many drunken, stupid men videos.

Where I do agree is the following a drunken women, etc, home, or anywhere! That's an invasion of privacy, and a safety concern.

Western society as a whole has a problem with an overall decline in morals and standards. Women’s equality has devolved into hyper-sexualisation, which women openly and willingly participate in. I’m probably right in saying that I’d bet a fair few of the girls caught on those videos have onlyfans profiles. Whilst no one is doing the fruit throwing that you make them out to be, I don’t think that women should get a free pass to set the bar so low for themselves. Shame and judgement are useful and essential social tools for keeping the benchmark of what is socially acceptable and what isn’t in check. Sadly as the years go by, this is being dwindled away because of attitudes like yours thinking that women can do no wrong and should be allowed to parade themselves around however they so desire, regardless of it’s societal consequences.

You are under no obligation to live in the West. I'll chip in for your ticket elsewhere.

Do you honestly not have anything more constructive to say other than suggesting I leave my home country because my view is different to yours? What a midwit.

Well you seem to have such a revulsion to so called Western values and you have such repulsive misogynistic views, that buying you a one way ticket to somewhere far away would be doing you a favour.

Midwit.

The West is in decline. There are various parameters which clearly evidence this. I don’t think it’s a good thing. Where are we heading as a society? I don’t need to go and live anywhere else because of that. I’m an English woman and I’m going to stay where I am and engage in debate to challenge why we think the decline is okay, and why the hyper-sexualisation of women is something to be defended. Bit racist of you to suggest I go elsewhere to be honest. Should I go and live somewhere a bit browner, is that what you’re getting at? What have I said that is repulsively misogynistic? Other than pointing out objective reality? People like you with your attitude of women can do no wrong because they are women, and should be able to do whatever they like at all times without anyone commenting is part of the problem. Shining a light on, or holding a mirror up to these sorts of things makes people uncomfortable because it is uncomfortable.

Which is more feminist; women being able to do whatever they want with no consequence regardless of how damaging to themselves it may be, or women having self respect, holding themselves to a higher standard and wanting better for themselves?

It's not 'objective reality' is it. It's your opinion.

You seem to have a low opinion of the West and Western women. It's not racist to suggest you live somewhere that better suits your values. The West has people of all colours, it's not a monolithic white place. I haven't mentioned skin colour, I've mentioned your views.

These videos are of young women walking down the street or going out in the evening. They have been posted online and have attracted thousands of misogynistic comments. That's why it's the equivalent of putting women in the stocks. The comments are shaming and vitriolic. They perpetuate negative stereotypes and rape culture. The videos are not just of women drunk, they're of women in general in mostly skimpy outfits. They're predatory and voyeuristic focusing on women's breasts and backsides. They're inherently mysoginist and the comments they attract are misogynistic.

What are you 'shining a light' on exactly? Women going about their business? Why bring in onlyfans? There's no evidence that these young women have anything to do with Onlyfans. It's some twat secretly filming women, the police are involved and it constitutes harassment.

What exactly are these women doing wrong? Who is setting these arbitrary standards for women's behaviour?

The West is not a single country but a group of countries. Each has their own history and culture and you can't make such sweeping statements.

What do you mean by 'hyper sexualisation'? Women are sexual beings, like men. They are entitled to sex lives and to enjoy sex. They're entitled to look sexy, to dress how they please and to have as many or as few sexual partners as they choose.

I'm not sure what the debate is here. It's wrong to secretly film women and post it on the internet to garner misogynistic comments. What's there to debate?

What a load of old bollocks, @NotAllowed 😂 very entertaining. Great parody account.

And anyone who is out & about in a public place can legally be filmed. That’s not new, either.

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This may be true but there is something very sinister about the deliberate nature of this, generally done by a man.

I remember when an Islamic group got into trouble with the police for filming drunk known to be muslim northern men. How is that any less acceptable than filming drunk women? I imagine for a girl who’s identified it could potentially ruin employment prospects before they can even begin.

Wow

Some seriously nasty anti women sentiments on this thread

So, I take it you also support the shaming of men for watching only fan videos? In fact far more men watch only fan videos than women have only fan's accounts so we should be going after them really.

Depends on the nature of the filming. Upskirting is illegal as is causing alarm or distress. I believe many women in Manchester are aware of the videos and it has caused a large amount of distress. The police are calling for women to come forward.

And I have a lot of issues with e.g. Only Fans accounts. But its interesting that everytime someone here starts a thread on e.g. their issues with porn it is swarmed with men arguing that porn is OK, they need it etc etc. And often being quite cross at prudish men trying to take it away. But at other times when someone weighs in to complain about women being "hypersexual" or judging them for having only fans account** the same men are silent. hmmm.
In essence:

• men need to look at naked ladies/its natural for men to want to look at partially clothed women
• Women having OF accounts or even just walking around in immodest attire are hypersexualised, contributing to the downside of western society and need to be shamed
• Its only natural for men to want to watch the video's shaming the women because see first bullet point

If all women stopped going out and started dressing hyper-conservatively the men would be sad (and there would be lots of bewailing the fact that women don't trust men not to film them etc etc). Feminism would be to blame.

**Or even NOT having an OF account but looking like the sort of women that random-man reckons WOULD have an OF. Even just being a young women really.

I’m completely anti porn so yes.

Right, but far more men watch porn than women watch porn or women participate in porn. Its completely unreasonable to talk about the women in those videos and say "I bet many of the have OF accounts". Its not just an unfair (and misogynistic) assumption - its not mathematically likely. It is statistically likely to assume that many of the men walking around Manchester at night are consumers of porn. So if the aim was shaming society back into a less hyper-sexual state then it would make sense to target them. But no-one is to the same extent. Its just voyeuristic focus on the women - and is being watched by men usually for some of the same reasons they watch porn. So I don't see how its deserved, or helping. I think you are quite naive for seeing it as such.

The aim isn't to shame women out of being in a hyper sexualised state (whatever that means). It's being done to shame women and Western women in particular. The videos have been viewed millions of times and much of the vitriol comes from deeply misogynistic cultures outside the UK.

Our friend is bringing up Onlyfans because she thinks young women in short skirts are all sex workers who deserve everything they get.

It doesn't matter that men create porn, control porn and are its main consumers. This is about demeaning women and putting them in their place. It's about dehumanisation. It's about controlling women's sexuality.

@cupcaske123 I agree! Sorry if that wasn't clear. I was more responding to NotAllowed's argument that we need shame and this is an example of that. Of course a healthy society needs somethings to be considered shameful. But this isn't a good example of that. If anything is going to bring about "the downfall of the west" its the "western men" filming and spreading negative propaganda to other men in the hopes of earning their approval or cash from monetising the videos.
I also thought someone who was genuinely modest wouldn't be flinging the c-word around with such abandon but there we go.
Interestingly with regard to controlling women's sexuality there are now AI apps that will remove the clothes from women but also modesty AI apps that will add clothes to photos of scantily clad women to make them be dressed more trad. Basically, however the woman is dressed she ought to be dressed another way and there's an app for that now 🙄

Shame and judgement are useful and essential social tools for keeping the benchmark of what is socially acceptable and what isn’t in check.

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Interesting this deterrent is used regularly to shame women and their behaviours yet the truly destructive natures in society, overwhelmingly committed by men to women, clearly cannot be kept in check.

Tale as old as time - women are to blame for the bad shit that happens to them

It's everywhere. I got a VR headset during the covid lockdown to virtually visit places all over the world, mostly through YouTube walkthrough videos. The ones from the UK were disproportionately creepy.

I don't know how you'd legislate against it though, without limiting legitimate public recording.

Ain't you a peach.

It's certainly a perspective.