Secretly filmed videos of drunk northern women

[Northernnnnnn]

I haven't posted before, so apologies if this is the wrong place.

I keep seeing videos on my Facebook and Instagram from a few different accounts, of people secretly filming very drunk, mostly dressed with very few clothes, women on nights out in northern cities.
I had a further look and there seems to be quite a few accounts of I'm assuming men (I can't imagine any woman I know doing this but then I could be wrong!) just dedicated to this secret filming of women who seem to be walking home very drunk. There is even one video where the cameraman is literally filming a very drunk woman walking being followed by a very drunk man. Why wouldn't you step in and help??

I have so many problems with these videos I don't even know where to begin, but they have brought up a lot of bad memories and feelings for me, and I hoped the feminism board might be a good place to have a discussion around this.

Firstly, there is the issue of secretly filming women who are not in a fit state to know what is going on. There is a lot of skin on show- obviously it's the woman's choice what she wears, and I often went out as a teenager of wearing similar- but I can't imagine any of them would want videos of themselves in this state, with so much skin on show being broadcast to the whole world.

Then there's the issue that, from experience, a lot of these women are going to be under 18, and many under 16- I made loads of stupid decisions as a teenager, and was raped as a young teenager while walking home from a night out dressed similar to these women- obviously what I was wearing wasn't the issue, but the whole culture of this getting so drunk you don't even know what's going on, and the fact that someone might have filmed me. This is not very well articulated but it just really upsets me.

Then there is the stereotype of northern women. There seems to be this idea that northern women are 'scummy' and 'chavvy' (words taken from video comments). There is the dressing in this way, in the middle of winter, when all the men are dressed comfortably - I don't know.ow what my friends and I were thinking going out dressed up to look so much older trying to impress men who hadn't even brushed their hair. The group of girls I was friends with at this age all had similar life stories to myself, leaving home at 15, getting raped/sexually assulated, often at work. I know that some of the old friendship group are still going out, doing drugs, drinking now we are nearly 40, which again is their choice and fine, and I have no judgement, but I've just been really shaken by these videos, and I'm struggling to put my feelings on this into words.

Thank you if you managed to get through that!

Yeah I am shocked because you can’t even buy a pack of kitchen knives in Tesco unless you look over 25!!

Women choose to go out dressed in next to nothing and get shit faced in public. But the issue is it being filmed?

Just arrived yesterday - Saturday evening - to a hotel in a Midlands city centre and went out to get something to eat. Don't usually see this first hand so felt really shocked by the number of people absolutely off their faces. Quite a few middle aged people and also groups of guys and groups of mixed sex, but it was the predominence of groups of woman, mainly young, really drunk, and very loud, that surprised me. Most of them scantily dressed.
I'm older and remember the movement that resulted in the law being changed so that pubs and bars could no longer be "men only" . I actively supported this change to allow women to have the same drinking rights as men. But it really shocks me to see so many drunken women in the streets.
My take on feminism has always been equal rights and opportunities for women but I hate this embracing of emulating the worst characteristics of male behaviour. Just because it is now socially acceptable for women to drink - which wasnt the case when I was growing up- why do so many women want to emulate a behaviour which is repugnant in men I.e being legless drunk in public?
Also both men and women are vulnerable when drunk . I've known of men passed out drunk and being robbed whilst unconscious. And I know a woman can be sexually assaulted/ raped what ever she is wearing. But the reality is the way a lot of the very drunk women are dressed does make them look especially vulnerable.

Men go out without shirts on and get pissed up, they get nowhere as much shit as women do. Women can go out in whatever they want and get as pissed as they want , the issue is that our lives are documented by strangers, we should all have privacy even in this instance.

I think pissed up shirtless men who start fighting etc get just as much flack from society for being antisocial. Women don’t get a free pass to go out dressed like strippers and get so wasted they put themselves in vulnerable positions because they’re women or because men do it too. A bit of responsibility for their own actions must be taken here. It’s a societal issue. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should, and doesn’t make it a good idea. Unfortunately the element of privacy is a non sequitur when out in public.

In countries where women are forced to cover fully and cannot leave the house without a man, they're still harassed and assaulted. What a grown woman chooses to wear and whether or not she chooses to drink does not matter. Women have a right to go out and enjoy themselves without harassment. If that's a problem for you, there are plenty of places with backward views and drachonian laws that you can move to.

Going out and getting pissed has consequences for both men and women.

As well as damaging to health its quite frankly a public nuisance. Society has to clean up after drunk people: give them medical attention, clean up the streets after them, deal with the crimes committed while drunk. There are consequences to their families: violence, money shortage etc.

Yes I totally agree people shouldn't be filming drunk women in the streets but it seems to me lots of unpleasant things shouldn't happen as a consequence of public , and actually private, drunkeness, and this is just yet another on the list.

Well we’re not in an Islamic country (yet, give it 50 years). We’re in the UK. Yes women have the freedom and right to go out dressed more immodestly than a prostitute and get so pissed they leave themselves open to anything happening to them. Just as I have the right to witness it and pass opinion on it. And my opinion is that just because they CAN do it, doesn’t make it a good idea or enriching for a functional society. Why would I move to a different country for having an opinion? What a stupid comment.

Linking with this issue of bring filmed, I absolutely hate it when people film dance floors on a night out and then post it to social media. No consent given. I'd like phones to be banned on nights out and give people their privacy back.

You're comparing young women to sex workers. Your mysoginy is clearly on view for all to see. I'm suggesting you move somewhere better suited to your values which don't tally with modern British society.

These women are simply out enjoying themselves. What they choose to wear is their choice. I don't believe there's any evidence of them being disorderly. They're out, dressed up having a good time and that clearly bothers you. So much so, that you believe they should be filmed and humiliated in public.

Attire that used to be reserved for sex workers is now normal attire for an average night out. Maybe don’t dress like a sex worker if you don’t want to be compared to one? Just a thought. You can call it misogyny (this is the correct spelling by the way) but I actually would love to see women empower themselves in ways other than staggering about half naked on a Saturday night. Yes it is their choice. And I think it’s a bad one. Whether they should be filmed or not is inconsequential, as we live in England and under common law in England and Wales, we all have the right to record in public. Who is humiliating them? The videos are filmed quietly and presented without comment. If any humiliating acts are caught on film then that is untimely the responsibility of the person humiliating themselves.

You're being disingenuous; you know full well why these young women are being filmed.

Stop perpetuating rape culture by comparing them to sex workers.

I keep seeing these too op and have thought the same. They are out having a great time but someone thinks it's fine to film them and post on sm for folk to pass judgement. Leave them be.

Well this is the modern British society, as you put it, that we live in. People are free to record publicly and post it online, just as these women are free to publicly get shitfaced and stagger about in their Shein négligée. I’m allowed to be English and have socially conservative values.

under common law in England and Wales, we all have the right to record in public.

What does this mean? In many, maybe most, circumstances you won’t be breaking any laws recording people in public (not always easy to define by the way) but I’m not aware of a specific right. What’s a right under common law anyway? Do you mean there is some case law relating to it?

Manchester nightlife videos: Women 'feel unsafe' after being secretly filmed www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-68826423

England operates under a common law legal system and there are no laws prohibiting filming in public without consent. Ergo, we have the freedom and right to do so if we wish.

I think it's disingenuous to deny that the way people dress influences others opinion of then. People dress to give others people messages: dress in a certain way for a job interview , for a wedding , for going to the gym And people see them in these situations and how they are dressed and form opinions. That is the way society works. To suggest that a woman walks down the street with most of her body on show and thinks that people don't form opinion of her is ridiculous.

Socially conservative values don't include shaming women publicly. That's called misogyny (thanks for the spell check). Nor do they include comparing young women on a night out to sex workers and making assumptions about their morals. Which is what you're doing. It gives the impression that young women deserve whatever they get because they choose to dress up or drink on a night out. That's part of rape culture which is endemic in our society.

No one is suggesting that people shouldn't form opinions. Knock yourself out.

There's stuff on YouTube of filming women on the beach, or a swimming pool/resort. They focus on women in revealing clothing, zoom in on their bodies/bums...whole families are there and there's no way of knowing it the female is over the age of 18, nor do they know they are being filmed/given consent.

There also videos women on nights out, drunk and one youtube account goes to big cities to film

Another one where women are on a mechanical bull and the operator makes the bull jolt so the person holds on and the woman's bum jiggles..

The comments are usually:
men of culture, we meet again.

Well it seems to me a lot of people do get stick for even suggesting women are judged unfavourably by what they wear. The pp suggesting more or less that young women dress like sex workers for instance is being told she is a misogynist. So people are allowed to think that but not voice that? Because the opinion people form of others very often translates into how they behave towards that person.

I know we have a common law system but describing something as a common law right makes it sound as though there is some sort of positive right. I don’t think there is.

Socially conservative values means I think it’s a real shame seeing women half naked and off their heads and it being completely normalised and defended. You can call me misogynistic all you want. I actually want women to have self respect and hold themselves to a higher standard. They do dress like sex workers. This is a fact. You’re being disingenuous if you think they don’t. It’s reasonable to assume morals based on how a person presents themselves. Guess what, women aren’t angels. I’ve been on plenty of nights out. I’ve seen the behaviour. I’ve seen the fights and the screaming and complete loss of control and self respect. Drinking to excess. Drug use. Police getting involved. Causing a nuisance. Looking a mess. Just generally lowering the bar for society overall. It’s not good. People are going to film this and presents it without comment as a silent cultural commentary because they create a spectacle which attracts attention.

We should all hold a high bar for ourselves, we should all have self respect. Britain, unfortunately has a problem with binge drinking.

Drawing attention to Britain's problem with booze is very different to secretly filming young women on a night out and posting it online. Women are also secretly filmed going to the toilet and getting changed in clothes shops. We all have a right to go out without being harassed or publicly shamed.

This is a modern way of putting women in the stocks and inviting others to throw rotten fruit.