Why are so many minimum wage/low paid jobs done by women?

[LorlieS]

Why is this still "the norm?"

Nearly all small/independent care homes (and children's nurseries) around here have closed down in the past decade or two. I used to do the accounts and tax returns for some of them. They AREN'T profitable because of the huge costs of staffing, heating, building maintenance, regulatory compliance, etc. Not helped that local GP surgeries started charging them for visits too!

The only profitable ones are the large ones and the chains, both of whom have economies of scale, i.e. more "customers" to cover all the fixed overheads such as management, administration, etc.

Sorry this is kind of off topic, but I was in a similar position during the pandemic except I was the ‘non-essential’ accountant trying to work from home, even more busy than usual, with a 16 month old, no nursery place and a DH who is a GP and was out at work. I worked late at night every night, cut my hours and used AL but he also ended up cutting his hours a bit to help out with the childcare, or else I’d probably have lost my job. Yes not ideal in a global pandemic but we needed him
as a family.

Sorry that was meant to be a reply to @FarleyHatcherEsq

@Lwrenagain aww another Shopaholic fan <3 Minnie's a lovely young teenager

of course, I agree women are brainwashed into being kind. But I think people just don't value care as well. Of course, maybe because it used to be 'women's work' which comes back to the same argument of female domination but essentially they just don't want to pay for it.
I think of care a bit like nursery work actually. Most are paid minimum wage in nursery but families who can afford it will pay more for a nanny.
But for care... Even those who can afford it refuse to pay the price, hiding their assets so it won't all go on care.

Anyway, people will get their comeuppance. It's not just the elderly so many more children with severe/complex needs are surviving into adulthood and needing lifelong care, sometimes more than 1:1. We are an ageing population and there won't be enough people to care for them all.

What's going to happen? I don't know.

Btw I'm not disagreeing that women's work is undervalued! I just think people resent having to pay for care and they're not thinking whether it's women's work or not. We already have a lack of carers and those who can, pay (i know a couple working as live-ins and earning an 'ok' amount, not megabucks). Those who can't get left to rot.

It's sexism at work.

Women aren't doing these jobs because they are low paid they are low paid because it's women that do them.

Compare along class lines:

WC with few academic qualifications still have access to well paid jobs such as trades. WC women only have low paid "5 C's" jobs available to them.

Men are more likely to be employed through contacts/ informal/ jobs for the boys networks. This leads to higher pay. They also work in sectors that don't have set salaries so often negotiate higher salaries.

Compare this to the predominantly female public sector where pay is fixed on set scales.

Also when women in jobs have to work out of hours they get TOIL (ie unpaid) whereas men get overtime, not just more pay but an even greater increase.

It's patriarchy in practice.

@cordeliachaseatemyhandbag

'WC with few academic qualifications still have access to well paid jobs such as trades. WC women only have low paid "5 C's" jobs available to them.'

Simply not true, and quite anti feminist.

@TheCircusOfLife ok what well paying jobs out there are there for WC women with little or no qualifications. We've already discussed the issues of physicality when entering trades such as building or plumbing, mechanic etc

@Edsspecialsauce Ok, so we agree biological differences between men and women means that women either don't want to or can't physically do work such as building. Building work is back breaking work in comparison to say a TA, they SHOULD be paid more. Nobody can just walk into a trade, plumbing for example requires years of training through apprenticeships or fast track courses which result in a qualification. I'd also argue that there is nothing physically or legally preventing women from going into plumbing, electrics, driving jobs, warehouse work etc. Saying the ONLY work available to WC low skilled women is based in the 5 Cs is just plain false. The truth is women don't want to do trade based work on average. What are your suggestions for a solution? Just pay women working in cosy offices or schools the same as men risking life and limb on rooftops in the rain or shine? That would be far from fair. Feminism is about equality after all.

Paradoxically many people on this thread are stating mutually exclusive desires. Equality with men in the salary also means equality in education and career progression. As a mother of three I can tell you that this is impossible. With the current system of support for mothers in this country women will never achieve the same salary as men never. So I think it's time to stop pretending and live in the real world.

The long and short of it it's a man world. In many ways. Women are often left to pick up the slack, take mat leave. Single parents are mainly women.... men get away with not paying for their own kids whilst earning well. Need I go on!

Haven’t read the full thread, but does anyone recall the huge scandal at the RCN revealing a culture of sexual harassment and exploitation? This involved senior managers (male) and the largely female membership, especially at RCN conferences.

Tbf, there's also the fact that construction is the single most dangerous industry in terms of the likelihood of dying. I'm on building sites all day and there are so many ways to get killed if h&s isn't spot on.

Women are often left to pick up the slack, take mat leave.

But almost no women want to share their mat leave. Almost every one of the few I've met that did say they encountered borderline hostility to the idea from most women - "no way I'm sharing it with him."

A poster on here actually said exactly the same the other day.

@Drosera I'd have been happy to share my mat leave, but bit difficult when my baby was exclusively breastfed. And as I'm a teacher, I wouldn't have been able to have time out to express during the working day.
However, when I returned to work my husband took one day off (unpaid of course) to look after our 1 yo.
Why are fathers any less important than mothers?
Hubby would give anything to be a SAHP whereas it would fill me with dread!!

Absolutely!!!

In these discussions it always seems to be about encouraging women to be (for example) politicians, scientists, entrepreneurs, engineers. But what if you really don’t want to do those jobs but you do want to do other jobs that are just as highly qualified and (more importantly) socially useful ?

Why don’t we raise awareness, campaign etc so that socially essential jobs traditionally done by women are seen as valuable? Society could not function without teachers, nurses, childcare and domestic workers. If you think this is funny or peripheral (as my husband does) try imagining a world without them. Just because they are usually done by women doesn’t mean they are not essential.

I spent the first half of my life (until 50) working as a mother, domestic worker (ie wife) and school teacher. Since getting a PhD and working as a university lecturer I have learned a great deal. I really have no idea why a lecturer is paid better than a childminder or domestic worker. Neither works harder than the other, or with more or less skill.

Most importantly, what do we value as a society? It seems we value what men do, or what women who do ‘men’s’ jobs do. DH who has always worked in the city in the financial industry has always earned a shit load despite the fact that:

1. He really does not work as hard as the average childcare worker
2. Is not as skilled as anyone else
3. Does not have more qualifications
4. Most importantly, his work does not add value to society

It absolutely is time to question what jobs in society are valued and why. That means laying off the constant emphasis on what women need to do to be valued ie. Training to be scientists, politicians and entrepreneurs and looking at what we can do to get MEN doing the absolutely essential work in society.

As a mother of three I can tell you that this is impossible. With the current system of support for mothers in this country women will never achieve the same salary as men never.
@Fox111 That is fundamentally flawed - even now lack of government doesn't stop the mother working rather than the father- you just need one parent to look after the child. However it is difficult to claim the right to equal work opportunities with men when men don't have the right to equal time with the children
Shared parental leave is starting to be more common - where i work we offer primary care leave the same to both men and women and we are seeing both use it

@Commonhousewitch Might be being dense but re the shared leave...isn't it only ever going to make financial sense for whoever is the lower of the two earners in a couple to take the time off? Not for one second of course saying that will always be a mother.

@LorlieS its a bit odd how its working- fundamentally we give say 6 months paid parental leave to the parent who has primary carer responsibilities at that time - but it can be taken at any time within the first 2 years i think. so in theory if we had both parents in our place- one parent (eg mother) would take the first 6 months whilst she was primary carer and then return to work at which time the second parent takes over. Its all paid (at my employer) - not sure what the statutory rights are- but its leave per parent per baby and not per baby

But re taking unpaid leave- yes i agree with you-one thing i observe is women tend to be with men older than themselves so even if everything else was equal the man would be earning more and then it makes sense for the woman to take unpaid leave - she then falls even further behind on pay so it makes even more sense when the next baby comes along

that said if you are primary earner and supporting a family - it is hard to take maternity leave etc-

@Drosera care staff have the worst back problems across any industry and night shift workers are taking 10 years off their lifespan, neither risk is reflected in their pay.