Why are so many minimum wage/low paid jobs done by women?

[LorlieS]

Why is this still "the norm?"

@ChateauMargaux and that is the beauty of MN we can disagree entirely on this subject but it is always good to have that open dialogue and debate things civilly.

My colleague was in IT as a sales manager for 8 years. She moved sideways from another industry and did very well, being promoted a number of times. However, in the end she left because all her team reports were from men and all her reports higher up were to men and she just found the environment so draining and hostile she decided to leave the industry.
Her people skills are amazing, she is extremely bright and would do well in any industry, but the pay was just not worth the stress to her of being in an all male industry where most seriously lacked people skills. She dreaded work in the end.

@C1N1C .. have you read any of the links in this thread... or looked at any of the government or ILO reports? Not only is there ample evidence of a gender pay gap at all levels in all areas.... the factors you mention merely compound the gender pay gap meaning that the gap in lifetime earnings and total wealth is even wider. The calculation of gender pay gap is based on the same job for the same hours.... so doesn't account for the fact that men are found in greater numbers in higher paid jobs and that women are more likely to work fewer hours. I would love to see the debunking article you mention.

When this discussion comes up I always think about the history of computing and how it started as a woman dominated field but purposefully transformed into a man dominated one.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/computer-industrys-gendered-history-from-womens-work-mens-rutherford

I feel it points to the big elephant in the room, that despite it being 2024, women are still not respected or valued als human beings.

What are the stats? How many women v men have a minimum wage job?

@Jk987 . here are some stats.. https://wbg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/final-employment-2020.pdf

The 1920's are calling they want their values back. In what world is this true in 2024 ?
My DGM was a doctor ( b 1914)
My DM was a teacher (b 1949)
I am a doctor ( b 1976)

This hasn't been true for at least 70 years.

@Neurodiversitydoctor It may not have been true for you but that rhetoric most certainly still exists, even though perhaps many don't like to admit it.
@TheCircusOfLife I wonder what your wife does for a living, out of interest?

Not for my grandmother, not for my mother, not for me, not for any of the women I went to school or University with and not for my daughter.

I do not think I know anybody who thinks this way or did in the last 40 years. Even the old ladies at curch aged 80+ all talk about their careers.

Actually that is a lie, I had the misfortune to sit next to a late middle aged man at a dinner in 2015 who was telling me paying for girls' education was a waste of money as " they would only get married and give up work" I think it was the only time in my life when I was literally lost for words.

@Neurodiversitydoctor It’s not true for your family , but it is in many cases. Movies “How to marry millionaire”, “Pretty woman” and recent “ 50 shades of grey” all have the same story: rich man meets a poor girl are there for a reason. Here, in the Mumsnet, there’re often posts: “My his husband earns four times more then I”, other way round are much rarer.

@LorlieS Evidently you aren't reading the responses in entirety which is odd for someone who has started a thread. You asked if I had kids after I had already spoken of my son, now you think I'm a man when I've mentioned numerous times previously about being a woman working in male dominated professions.

I am agog that people think films such as pretty woman reflect life in anyway at all. I was 14 when it was released and could see how completely unrealistic it was then. Also why would you take that as your template rather than Ripley in alien or Lelia in the star wars trilogy all released around the same time. Even " working girl" shows women earning money....

We also had a female prime minister and head of state for much of our childhood. Strange to think marrying a rich man was the goal in tha environment.

4.4% of men v 6.6% of women are in minimum wage jobs.

I havent looked at 'low paid" as i think people would disagree on what was covered by low pay.

I'm not saying films like that are realistic. Movies often show certain believe, which appeals to the public. Their popularity show, many women would want to meet a rich man and have comfortable life by his side. Many years later another Julia Roberts film was released, "Notting Hill", basically the same story, but other way round, rich woman meets poor man. This movie wasn't as popular. It didn't play on the certain believe that much.

But why choose them ? What about alien ? What about stars wars ? What about ER ffs ? All show empowered women in charge of their own destiny not beholden to some man.

Answer is simple: those movies are more popular. Star Wars are much more complex story, empowered women are one of characters and not always main ones. Other successful
stories showing strong women, there’s often a big dose of sexual appeal there, for example Princess Xenia and Superwoman. Yes, they’re strong, they are empowered, but they’re also pretty and sexy and not afraid to show of their flesh.

I am sorry I just completely disagree with you and actually find your attitude incredibly depressing, I sincerely hope if you have daughters you don't share these beliefs with them.

I went to a technical college where there were loads of apprenticeships and trades. We can all say what we want about sexism etc but one of the biggest reasons I saw for low numbers or women dropping out was sadly because physically they didn’t have the strength physically for the job. We can say what we want but people on work placements found out early on that you need a certain amount of physical strength for them which they didn’t have. There was a lot of ‘fuck this, I’m not doing this my whole life’

This book might be interesting for you to read..

https://books.google.fr/books/about/Pink_Brain_Blue_Brain.html?id=gXUUa4AJ4lIC&redir_esc=y.

In the past decade, we've come to accept certain ideas about the differences between males and females—that boys can't focus in a classroom, for instance, and that girls are obsessed with relationships. In Pink Brain, Blue Brain, neuroscientist Lise Eliot turns that thinking on its head. Calling on years of exhaustive research and her own work in the field of neuroplasticity, Eliot argues that infant brains are so malleable that small differences at birth become amplified over time, as parents and teachers—and the culture at large—unwittingly reinforce gender stereotypes. Children themselves intensify the differences by playing to their modest strengths. They constantly exercise those “ball-throwing” or “doll-cuddling” circuits, rarely straying from their comfort zones. But this, says Eliot, is just what they need to do, and she offers parents and teachers concrete ways to help. Boys are not, in fact, “better at math” but at certain kinds of spatial reasoning. Girls are not naturally more empathetic; they’re allowed to express their feelings. By appreciating how sex differences emerge—rather than assuming them to be fixed biological facts—we can help all children reach their fullest potential, close the troubling gaps between boys and girls, and ultimately end the gender wars that currently divide us.

That was me lol. Although I did go one further and actually work in a trade. But I very quickly realised at college and adjusted my modules, which gave me the ability to diversify eventually.
I'm in my 50s so trained a good while ago, I was taught mainly by men and course mates were mainly male, but I was actually well supported and sexism wasn't the issue. In the workplace there was some sexism, but there was also a lack of tolerance if you weren't physically capable.

Who said I’m sharing this beliefs? I don’t , I’m stating facts. There’s belief many women would like to have a rich husband and rely on him- and it’s a case for many cases. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be SAHM.

Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say ?

@TheCircusOfLife Oh I do apologise - I'm rather busy at work. What job is it you do?