"What about Men?" Caitlin Moran's New Book

[Squeaky2023]

I do not even know where to start. There's a lengthy article in the Guardian: www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/01/caitlin-moran-whats-gone-wrong-for-men-and-the-thing-that-can-fix-them

She talks cliche; the old mens' moan about the lack of attention on International Mens' Day and the lack of mens' support groups and charities.
I mean the reasons are fairly obvious here: because the men can't be arsed to organise themselves; they just complain about what women have. She is doing this for them via the privilege of a public platform.
She questions why men are more likely to be in gangs, why men can't celebrate their small genitalia like women do their vaginas.
All obvious basic stuff from a "poor men" angle. I doubt Caitlin has even asked herself who would speak for women in this way? It wouldn't be a man, that's for sure.
I am very disappointed and tired of this old trope and the lack of nuance and complexity when talking about the subject in a National paper by a woman.
I never want to kick out at another woman, but she's really sunk low.

Maybe she should ask LOJ and FM - that could be fun to watch

I used to love her but she’s really lost her way in life…..

I was disappointed when I heard she was writing a book about men. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, but it looks like I was right. I haven't bought it; can't afford to take a chance on it, glad I didn't. I still wonder what her stance is on the trans issue. I think I can guess 🙄

"She questions why men are more likely to be in gangs, why men can't celebrate their small genitalia like women do their vaginas."

Eh?

I’ve never liked her and thought her How to be a Woman book totally overrated.

She does appear, however, to be more than pleased enough with herself, for the both of us.

She does appear, however, to be more than pleased enough with herself, for the both of us.
Yes

I don’t get the market for this - is it for me (middle aged woman) or my husband?? Do men want to read this? I wouldn’t want to read a male columnists book about women!

I generally like Moran’s style of writing, but I didn’t get her last book, I have been annoyed at her keeping quiet about the thorny issues.

It's like all the women who've been co-opted to act as the handmaidens for trans-women. Are men falling over themselves to celebrate and support trans-men? Of course, they fucking aren't! It really depresses me that so many women still choose to subordinate themselves. Caitlin Moran should know better tbh, but I find her a very Marmite writer - she can make really astute comments at times and really obtuse ones at others.

Read her piece in the G today. Thought she made a few good points but then it sort of fizzled. We do need to look at the fact white working class boys seem to be faring so badly in every way, for example. We also really need to look at why boys are seeking such toxic role models. I’m less convinced that celebrating the shortcomings (er) of male genitalia helps anyone though. I get the impression that she can’t quite strike the balance between seriously commentary and breezy humour - the latter is something I’ve loved about her writing in the past, but it really doesn’t set the right tone here.

I generally like Moran’s style of writing, but I didn’t get her last book, I have been annoyed at her keeping quiet about the thorny issues.

Same here. How dare she, after the books she has written, sit this issue out?? She was in the perfect position to be one of the leaders, framing the conversation, and instead she stays silent about women losing their rights and WRITES ABOUT MEN.

FFS

Tbh i Assumed that was exactly why she decided to do this book @ILikeDungs

’oooh well I’d love to express an opinion on women losing their rights but I’m just so gosh darn busy writing this book about men & then publicising it & touring it that I haven’t had time’

aka hopefully by the time that’s all done the heat might be off me as an oft self proclaimed feminist actually having to voice an opinion on it

Cynical, @Theeyeballsinthesky, but I can't argue with your reasoning

It is cynical but she has an opinion on literally everything but on this massive issue affecting women she has literally nothing to say?? It seems out of character to say the least

its pretty sad really :/

oh I’m sure she has the opinion, not ready to stand up for women though. She has teenagers and good friends who are fully ensconced in the ideology. It’s just too difficult.

I agree with a lot of her points tbf. It's not a zero sum game and the continued resistance to men trying to address their issues proves her point/is part of the issue and likely why they feel ashamed to admit when they're struggling.

Why white working class boys are faring so badly? In what way? Sorry for diverting the thread but that needs questioning as truth is always more complex. It’s true they don’t do so well educationally, but they do not need to. White working class boys can and do leave school with no qualifications and still have access, with decent career paths, to every trade and avenue under the sun. Transportation os largely male dominated and pays well too. Men of all kinds are pushed through in traditional female-dominated jobs as well as still having access to all the traditional male job routes. There are many training courses and alternative schools largely dedicated to boys who have decided they don’t want to try. Meanwhile, what alternatives are out there for white working class girls who don’t want to try? Heath and beauty has neither the money nor status (the latter with good reason) of any male-dominated trade and too often crosses with whoredom.

You could also look into the life gained by working class women who do take up education. What is out there for them nowadays and does it pay? My experience is that in the current economic climate jobs requiring education have class-based glass ceilings and the lower echelons are very much devalued compared to male-based and relatively unskilled sectors.

It might be interesting to look at, but the simple answer is that bpys do not have to try in education, there are always people around to make excuses for them.

@RosaGallica We certainly need to examine more broadly what is going on with career and job opportunities for young people. I live in an area of high socio-economic deprivation and see the consequences in my work. The missed point in CM’s piece is that patriarchal and misogynistic cultures actually damage everyone, men and women. It’s not a case of all the effort going towards promoting women at the expense of men - it’s poverty, social class and entrenched shame. I work with women and many have suffered at the hands of violent men, but we absolutely need to reach the men, too.

She talks about teenage boys who have grown up in the post Me Too era and puts that against the rise in popularity of figures like Andrew Tate

This shit affects women and girls in a much worse way. A couple of years ago i was sitting in the hairdressers and overheard the customer next to me talking about the fact her teenage son had ended his relationship with his girlfriend......over the fact that she had pubic hair, he thought it was disgusting and unclean. I did point out that its not and its there fora reason but i was wasting my time. Flicking through the channels a little while ago i came across Naked Attraction and a contestant was saying that they prefer a partner without pubic hair because its cleaner, Presenter didnt say anything.

What is with (I know why) women’s body hair being ’unhygienic’, but men can be a damn Chewbacca and that’s fine.

@YouAreNotBatman It really fucks me off I sat there in the hairdressers and silently fumed.
Caitlin has also done an article for Red on this. I only had a quick flick through when i was in Tesco on Saturday but the article is split into sections and from a skim through the section which mentions porn there was no mention of this issue Funny that

Well, non academic women still have the option of finding a rich bloke, which men can't really do the reverse of. I mean, if you have a half decent figure you can just post bikini pics on IG and get thousands upon thousands of followers by pretty much doing nothing.

Also, I work in transportation and the national average age for a truck driver is 55yo. It's not a young man's game and many companies don't want to employ young lads for insurance purposes.

I mean, if you have a half decent figure you can just post bikini pics on IG and get thousands upon thousands of followers by pretty much doing nothing

Except its more than just donning a bikini. Young working class women who do this will be expected to look very groomed. The TOWIE look costs money which a lot of young women wont have.

Meanwhile on Instagram....

Great post. You've said what I've been thinking but not collated in this way before.