Has anyone had to fix their own internalized misogyny?

[YouAreNotBatman]

And how did you do it?

Long story short I recognize I have some deep patriarchal and misogynistic views, that I don’t want to have but I don’t know how to get rid of them.

For example I’m single, I don’t have kids and think I’m ’less than’ women who have boyfriends or are married or have kids.
I’m not interested in having sex, never had it and unless I get raped - never will be having it. And this makes me think I’m worthless and unloveable, that I don’t deserve live or a partner.
I’ve been called a prude, frigid, bitch, tease, cold, virgin shamed many times throughout my life and I have internalized them all and I feel deep shame about it / myself.
Funny thing is that if someone were to slut shame, not that happens these days, but I know if it did, I would know it’s wrong and call it out, but I can’t do the same for myself, even though I know it equally misogynistic.
Once a guy told me that I was ”useless for a man if I didn’t give pussy” and even now years later I haven’t been able to shake the worthlesness I felt in that moment off.

I seem to have deep beliefs that woman’s worth is tied to being a girlfriend/ wife / mother and women who don’t are something, I don’t know, defect, broken, not worthy or something like that I guess.
And it hurts other women and also myself.

How do I fix this?

Oof. Well done for recognizing it, I guess? This sounds really upsetting to have to live with though. You could try immersing yourself in feminist literature, but honestly I think you probably also would benefit from some therapy to reframe how you think about yourself and the mindshare that you’ve (understandably!) given to other people’s extremely crappy comments.

Well done for identifying what’s going on here, and good luck uncovering and believing in your inherent worth, despite the awful messages that our broader culture tries to throw at you. You are a full human, full stop. You deserve full dignity.

I used to be a very enthusiastic 'be kind' liberal feminist, who used to inwardly roll my eyes at the boring/over the top/older feminists who didn't see how lucky we were to be empowered by all these modern choices.

Thankfully these real feminists humoured my younger self, and in time I realised that the liberal feminist position was stuffed full of internalised misogyny. I think the shift happened because what I now consider to be real feminists took the time to present clear and compelling arguments. 'be kind and anything other than validating individuals women's decisions' quickly falls apart.

Do you work OP?

Also, re: sex. I think of it a lot like running. Some people love it, some people find it a chore, some people have no time for it at all. It can be a lovely thing, but we all know that people who define themselves by it are utter bores!

It's impossible to be immune to the pervasive views of the society you live in. I'm sorry people have said these things to you and have made you feel the way you do. I don't know how you get rid if those views - counselling, perhaps? I get the impression that there are increasing numbers of women deciding they don't need a man and don't want kids. I think it's great that they know what they do and don't want and tread their own path!

You only need to hang around on the MN Relationships board for a short while to see plenty of proof that marriage and long-term relationships are often not all they're cracked up to be!

I hope you make peace with your choices, OP

It's impossible to be immune to the pervasive views of the society you live in
I think this sums it up

We're all shaped by the messages of society and those around us.

Everyone will have their own way of reconciling things and finding a peace that works for them

Do I work? 😀
Yes.
What does that have to do with anything?

Just wondered if your working life was suffering.

Rape isn't sex, rape is violence and control. Please don't confuse the two.

Highly recommend reading "Women don't owe you pretty" by Flo Given on this exact subject.

Your feelings seem extreme - was yours a happy balanced childhood?
Could counselling help?

So if a virgin is raped they're still a virgin?

Yes this.

I think I probably did connect my self worth with having a boyfriend in my teens and early 20’s but I imagine many boys/young men are the same. So I don’t think thats an unusual feeling if you are quite young.

@Peacepudding I guess if someone who is a virgin is raped, they technically are no longer a virgin but I would argue they haven't had sex. I believe sex is something that happens between 2 consenting adults. Rape is the complete opposite.

I'm not sure if 'losing your virginity' is considered physiological or an emotional experience.

Rape is non consensual sexual intercourse, it's still sex so the OP wasn't confused in what she said.

These views are so misogynistic I find myself wondering whether the OP is a young man writing in the character of a woman. I don’t mean that to be insulting.

I think OP, you just need to focus on interests and hobbies and friendships. Find a purpose in life. Then you will stop defining yourself by your relationship with men.

Well you don’t have to believe me, but I am a woman.
And honestly I’m ’glad’ that you agree it’s misogynystic thinking, because couple years ago I started to notice that this is how I’ve been thinking and started look into feminism and read on boards like this and never came across anyone else talking about this, often I seem to find comments that kind of lined with this kind of thinking and it made me more sad.

I do know what you mean, I'm single although I have two teens, but I have had to train myself not to see myself through the most judgemental pair of eyes. Instead I see myself through the eyes of strong women who have at least once (but hopefully only once) left some man and then feathered their own nest. I value my freedom such as it is, with a job and two teenagers, I will retire with my own pension, some savings and my house paid paid for. I wouldn't feel sorry for me now. So I have trained it out of myself but occasionally I hear a comment and think, wait, what, is that how you see me!? but now it doesn't hurt. I see it as a reflection of their narratives.

@YouAreNotBatman I listened to a fantastic audible when I was travelling last weekend :-D no husband to ask me what's for dinner, it is called The Mother Wound by Bethany Webster. It may not be relevant to you as perhaps none of your internalised narratives came from your mother's expectations. Mine were from a mixture, society and my mother. She only loved me if I made her feel better than me. I stopped doing that and became her enemy. I guess a lot of women would just shrug but I left the husband that didn't respect me and left the mother that seemed to want to ERODE me.

This is a fantastic listen for anybody grappling with who they are versus how society sees them

I really don't know how to respond apart from giving you this advice.

Stop comparing yourself to others.
Stop comparing others to yourself.

And fuck what you think makes a woman. Us women, all 4 billion of us, and those that came before are all different in our lives, none of us with have the same life. The only thing we do have in common is being female.
That is the only thing that makes us women.

The end.

ps, and last post, but a lot of the time, married women aren't subjected to what society's view of them would be if they were single because they are seen as one half of a couple. That gives them a status, rightly or wrongly. Single women are often perceived very differently. A lot of married women are happily oblivious to this because they are married. I've seen it on mn and people have argued with me as is their prerogative of course! But although they may have their own job, car, pension, savings, they are still viewed as married.

But as WOMEN get older and their marriages grow more restrictive I think they see it. I feel envied at least as often as I'm pitied! The people I admire would think more of me not less of me for not collapsing in to mediocre relationship just to be average.

@ToBeOrNotToBee I think it's ok to take a more forensic deep dive into one's identity as a single person in a couple-centric world.

I must listen to that women don't owe you pretty. Another good book I read was The Heroine's Journey by Maureen Bullock I think. It was bonkers in parts, there were bits I read where I thought, hang on did I read that right, but it is validating in a lot of ways because figuring out where you're headed and why is not an overnight process. I really enjoyed the book, and I still feel pressure to sublimate feminine sides of myself and be more masculine. In some ways, that has been necessary because I don't have a male partner (or partner) so all of the earning is on me. But I am making time to be more creative and to do things because i enjoy them, no other reason.

I am single.

It doesn't need a forensic deep dive to understand women are permanently shafted. That's a tale as old as time.

The sooner we women realise this, and stop giving a damn, the happier we will be.

I read a lot of threads on the relationship board. Seeing other MNers say clearly (eg) you can end a relationship for any reason you like was hugely empowering. Quite a lot gets spelled out clearly on the relationships board. I realised a lot stemmed from TV show norms and my mother. Getting older and caring a lot less about what people thought, becoming a mother and having a lot less capacity for stupid made up rules that make no sense.