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Feminism: sex and gender

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Captain Janeway

74 replies

ThePurpleOctopus · 05/05/2023 11:01

Just a thread in praise of this character who I feel has strongly influenced me.

I remember watching her when Voyager was live on TV when I was younger, and liking her so much - I wouldn't be watching Star Trek if not for her, she was my way into it.

But my Mum didn't really like her, called her 'strident', 'bossy', and didn't like her voice. I don't blame my Mum at all - we all have our own internal misogyny we battle with. But her feelings made me hide my love of Janeway for a while.

Then in my 20s I rewatched it all and appreciated Janeway even more, particularly as a young professional trying to be taken seriously - and having been called 'bossy' and 'aggressive' by older men when I truly believe I was nothing more than assertive.

Now in my thirties and re-watching it from the start on Netflix. I think my appreciation for Janeway has gone up again!

Just me?

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sytron · 05/05/2023 12:40

I loved Janeway - i loved her best in the episode in the other universe where she wore short hair and gloves and was generally mean to everyone, not a girly hair toss in sight (can't remember the name of the episode). I liked Bilana also as an intelligent woman who didn't simper around.
In fact now I think about, all the voyager women were ok - 7 of 9 had a bit of a 'dad-pleasing' outfit but she still knew her own value.
The one character i wasn't that thrilled about in TNG was Deanna Troy - I still don't know why she had to wear a catsuit when every other character was in uniform. (although again, i suspect dad-pleasing).
I liked fort salem for strong female characters (bbc) too (I have mentioned it on here).
I rather liked Dora the explorer too though😀

sytron · 05/05/2023 12:40

THINK ABOUT IT (no asterisk on this keyboard!)

Wnikat · 05/05/2023 12:44

Ah, at last I have found my people. Yes as a teenager it was so great to have a female role model in a sci fi show, particularly when I already felt a bit weird that Ioved sci fi as a girl. Voyager will always be my favourite Trek because of her. I do love 7 of 9 but a woman who looks like her but with no emotions to worry about it defo a male fantasy!

DRS1970 · 05/05/2023 12:49

Voyager is my fave star trek series.

sytron · 05/05/2023 13:01

what did you think about the Deep Space 9 characters?
Major Kira is the only one i can recall, and the ferengi women of course!

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ThePurpleOctopus · 05/05/2023 13:24

sytron · 05/05/2023 13:01

what did you think about the Deep Space 9 characters?
Major Kira is the only one i can recall, and the ferengi women of course!

I couldn't get into DS9 at all! I always thought it was because I wanted more of the 'space' stuff, but actually very likely it's the lack of good female characters! No one I could relate to or be inspired by.

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ThePurpleOctopus · 05/05/2023 13:28

Totally agree @sytron and @Wnikat about how Seven is portrayed. Another strong character, but annoying how they dress her. Just not needed at all.

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MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 05/05/2023 13:39

Janeway is awesome, I also really liked Major Kira and the way she effortlessly put Gul Dukat in his place.

I loved the Voyager Year from Hell episodes as Janeway runs around like a legit badass!

bellinisurge · 05/05/2023 13:41

100% best female character in Star Trek universe. Love her.

StandUpStraight · 05/05/2023 13:46

Love Janeway. I’m not a trekkie but my husband was watching and I really got into that series and happily rewatch it. What a great character - a hint of Katharine Hepburn about her too somehow.

Z0rr0 · 05/05/2023 13:49

DS9 is by far the best new Trek! IMHO. The story arc and character development they all go on is unparalleled in all the other shows.
Although I do love TNG.
Was a bit disappointed by Voyager (it sounds like I am a lot older than you!) but liked Janeway and her relationship with Chakotay and Seven.

ladymalfoy45 · 05/05/2023 13:52

She's fucking awesome. There was an anecdote yonks ago that Kate Mulgrew got testy when the powers that be were discussing what her hair should be like. Some thing like ' up ,down,long short I don't fucking care just let me do my job'.
And she's equally good in Warehouse 13.

Pancakefam · 05/05/2023 13:52

I watched this very recently and wish there were more characters like her. I think they ruined it slightly with 7 of 10 though.

ladymalfoy45 · 05/05/2023 13:57

Now then. Babylon 5. Ivanova anyone?

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ThePurpleOctopus · 05/05/2023 14:01

ladymalfoy45 · 05/05/2023 13:52

She's fucking awesome. There was an anecdote yonks ago that Kate Mulgrew got testy when the powers that be were discussing what her hair should be like. Some thing like ' up ,down,long short I don't fucking care just let me do my job'.
And she's equally good in Warehouse 13.

LOVE that quote!

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Z0rr0 · 05/05/2023 14:05

@ladymalfoy45 We're currently rewatching B5 with my 14 yo DD. Love Ivanova but just missed the ep with the green and purple Drazi because I was at the gym and they watched without me. Confused

UnDruidlyWords · 05/05/2023 14:07

Absolutely loved Janeway and all of Voyager.

7 of 9 was great too. My favourite episode with her was where the doctor borrows her body and misuses it, by going on a binge of cake and champagne, if I remember correctly. When she gets her body back, she slumps against a wall and wails 'I am impaired!'. Classic.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 05/05/2023 14:07

She was fabulous. Strong, intelligent woman.

Started rewatching recently myself, had forgotten how much Kes annoyed the shit out of me though and how creepy and controlling Neelix was over her.

7 of 9 was a great character. Emotionally still very much a child at first as never went through the normal route to adulthood.

The one character i wasn't that thrilled about in TNG was Deanna Troy - I still don't know why she had to wear a catsuit when every other character was in uniform. (although again, i suspect dad-pleasing)

Started with the classic short dress and black knee high boots though. 😄

With DS9 I never took to Keira. Liked Jadzia though.

PollyPeptide · 05/05/2023 14:08

I liked Janeway. She was a good captain. But I get what your mum said about her voice. She aways sounded like she had phlegm in her throat.
Voyager was not the best Star Trek, though. I remember the original. We got a colour tv half way through it being shown and were amazed they had different coloured shirts...and figured out red shirts were doomed to die. Definitely the best of all the series and it was amazing what it sporned.

ladymalfoy45 · 05/05/2023 14:08

@Z0rr0 Noooooo! That is such a good episode too!

Whatsnewpussyhat · 05/05/2023 14:10

and figured out red shirts were doomed to die

It was if a random new crew member appeared on the bridge you knew they were a goner

RockGirl · 05/05/2023 14:14

Seven is great in Picard. However, I'm still a little bit annoyed as to how her hair always looks perfectly blow dried.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 05/05/2023 14:15

Voyager definitely my favourite, and love Janeway. Such a good, strong character. Always felt a bit sorry for her that she had to maintain that professional distance and had no one to just be herself with. The difference when she was on the holodeck alone was really well done.

I watched TNG too, but even at 14 ish I found Picard arrogant and Reiker and his man-spreading most annoying. Could never get into DS9.

I like the newish one, with the mycelium or whatever it is

StamppotAndGravy · 05/05/2023 14:22

I love all of Janeway, 7 of 9 and Kira. Voyager didn't do the characters justice because they had nowhere to grow. I love how 7 is developed in Picard and would very much like to see Admiral Janeway showing her full potential. Kira was great because she was allowed to be angry, although some serious counselling would probably have helped her character and stopped the somewhat repetitive coming to terms with her past episodes! TNG characters were all a bit wet in comparison, with the exception of Data

Whatsnewpussyhat · 05/05/2023 14:26

I like the newish one, with the mycelium or whatever it is

The main character Michael was so unlikeable though. Tilly was great.
Then they had to start with all the preachy gender identity bollocks and I gave up.
Might watch the Michelle Yeoh spin off though. Her character was great in it.