Fixed showers - a feminist issue

[trytopullyoursocksup]

Another poster said on the swimming thread -
"but women are condemned to get thrush unless they can get home in ten min to wash the pool yuck out of their vulva."

I know showering in a cozzie makes it worse but seriously I cannot believe this is the first time I have seen / heard another woman mention this.

I hate fixed overhead showers.

In many cultures it is normal to have a bidet or other means of delivering running water near the toilet.

In our culture (british) I am old enough to remember when baths were standard and showers were "modern". now showers are standard and when they are fixed overhead only (in a hotel or in a house) and there is no bath (you can actually wash under the tap in a bath if the taps are on the long side, you can squat with your knees apart and get a decent wash) - I never feel clean.

I am prone to thrush, UTIs and various forms of dermatitis when I am run down and being scrupulously clean at all times really helps with this.

Who decided that overhead showers are enough and how can we be unembarrassed enough to do something about it?

[Dammitthisisshit]

@AndrexPuppy

Surely shooting high pressure water is more likely to flush bacteria backwards into the vaginal canal (like a douche), increasing the risk of infections?

You don’t shoot anything up anywhere. More across. The water falls down before going anywhere it shouldn’t. At least that’s me. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I can’t comment on anyone else. If this wasn’t a public forum I’d be tempted to draw a mumsnet diagram. But this is so I’m definitely not.

Personally I don’t have an issue post swimming as long as I have a shower when I get home - 10 minutes or 30 minutes doesn’t matter to me. But it is a pain if you’re going swimming before heading off for work as it’s then all day. I neither swim nor work at the moment but when I did it wasn’t ideal.

[Dammitthisisshit]

@TomeTome

I would imagine if you require a power hose type experience you might find THAT is what is causing your difficulties. Are you trying to wash inside your vagina?

No

[Hoppinggreen]

@Florissante

This is not a feminist issue. In fact, it's not even an issue at all.

Agree, I have never heard of or considered it .
I don’t even shower after a swim sometimes and have never had Thrush from it

[Dammitthisisshit]

@Clymene

I suspect firing a shot of high pressure water at your genitals is exacerbating rather than helping the issue.

It’s a shower not a pressure washer. And there’s definitely no firing.

[Catspyjamas17]

More likely with a fixed head shower the risk is it's too far away and too feeble a flow to wash my hair properly. Other bits are not much of an issue.

[PangoPurrl]

Wow, this thread is the epitome of typical Mumsnet nastiness.
'this doesn't happen to/affect me so therefore it can't possibly be an issue for anyone else'
'mentioning that you need to really thoroughly rinse after soaping your genitals means that you must be trying to shoot water up your vag'
'I'm going to discount your lived experience because it doesn't make sense to me'

Gah, I understand where you're coming from OP, as someone that has had to try sooo many different soaps/hygiene products over the years to avoid recurrent UTIs, and most definitely needs to rinse thoroughly. Which I'm quite able to do without 'pressure washing' my vagina, if the water is flowing close enough to get enough of it for said rinsing. With overhead showers I find myself having to contort myself in to a position where it looks like I'm about to limbo dance out of the shower.

And to add to your frustrations I have another one- I have sensory issues with water hitting my head/face so strongly dislike fixed shower heads for this reason too. Although I fully understand that they serve a purpose on the anti-vandalism front and in terms of longevity.

[user56912]

@cocksstrideintheevening

We have a fixed shower and a hose attachment on the shower and the bath. Most girls I've been to have been the same.

Bidets are primarily bum washers anyway.

Erm, how exactly are they primarily bum washers? You do know you face the wall don't you? I thought my bidet was very old fashioned when we moved into this house but my god it is amazing for a good clean, particularly after sex.

I have a bidet toilet in my en suite which I also wouldn't be without. Love it.

[Clymene]

You don't need to use soap or 'hygiene products' (whatever the hell they are) on your labia or vagina. If you upset the pH balance of your vagina and labia, you are more likely to get UTIs and have issues.

What is a feminist issue is women being told our genitals smell and we need to scrub them to keep them clean. We don't.

[MissLucyEyelesbarrow]

Wow, this thread is the epitome of typical Mumsnet nastiness.

People politely disagreeing with each other is not nastiness. Get a grip.

[KvotheTheBloodless]

I hadn't ever considered this. My foof is easy to clean with hands and gentle soap, it hadn't occurred to me that other women might need direct water flow. I guess we're all different.

Why don't you try a flannel, OP? Surely that would work, without needing a hose?

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

'this doesn't happen to/affect me so therefore it can't possibly be an issue for anyone else'

It's more that it isn't a feminist issue.

[KvotheTheBloodless]

@Clymene

You don't need to use soap or 'hygiene products' (whatever the hell they are) on your labia or vagina. If you upset the pH balance of your vagina and labia, you are more likely to get UTIs and have issues.

What is a feminist issue is women being told our genitals smell and we need to scrub them to keep them clean. We don't.

You do need to wash your vulva with soap, as it's not self-cleaning like vaginas are.

[ZeroFuchsGiven]

Well this is an interesting read for a Thursday morning, a discussion about scrubbing, power washing and hosing down ones fanny.

[magicthree]

I've never heard of this issue, and don't know anyone who doesn't have a fixed shower head, so it can't be that common.

[ImSweetEnoughDarlin]

I don't suffer with thrush or infections, and am fine to shower properly at the end of the day/when I get home if I swim in the morning, but I don't like fixed shower heads.

I think they are better for keeping THEM clean as people are nasty, but I don't feel like I can rinse off the nether region properly in them.

I don't shower properly at my local pool anyway as there aren't proper cubicles with doors so I just rinse off in my costume but YANBU op.

[ComtesseDeSpair]

Public changing and shower facilities are generally far from anyone’s ideal, regardless of their sex, for all kinds of reasons. It’s more of a grin and bear it experience for pretty much all of us, there’s not a lot of room for individual preference. I wouldn’t put this issue at the top of a list of problems.

[littleburn]

I'm fortunate in that I don't get UTIs or thrush in a regular basis, but I have got sensitive skin. I much prefer a detachable shower head so I can rinse off properly. So to rinse off soap (used to clean the vulva and bum area), and any residual shampoo or hair conditioner that's run down my back and into that area. Just a quick rinse off at the end of the shower. I thought that was fairly normal and standard?? Completely get why public showers are fixed, but I hate it in hotels and holiday let's where there's only a fixed overhead shower and no mini detachable one.

[myveryownelectrickitten]

@Clymene

You don't need to use soap or 'hygiene products' (whatever the hell they are) on your labia or vagina. If you upset the pH balance of your vagina and labia, you are more likely to get UTIs and have issues.

What is a feminist issue is women being told our genitals smell and we need to scrub them to keep them clean. We don't.

Surely the entire point is that if you just use only water to clean - as those of us with sensitive bits down there often do - you need a handheld shower?

No-one is affecting douching or aiming a high pressure water jet at it. I’m assuming all those who don’t think it’s an issue don’t have (a) overly reactive or sensitive vulva skin (b) any tags/skin issues/damage from birth injuries (c) a tendency to get thrush, eczema, piles or UTIs, all problems that require a bit more careful showering with plain water down there?

Just because you don’t think it’s an issue, and don’t think it’s feminist issue, doesn’t mean that some women don’t have this problem. Try having for example a complex 2b or 3 (or even 4th degree) tear, episiotomy and repair and having residual scars/skin issues/need to clean skin folds and scars very well with plain water on a permanent basis afterwards, and then see whether you don’t think it’s a problem. Jesus.

[myveryownelectrickitten]

(And I’ve chosen not to have my vulva reshaped and “fixed” to try to make it look aesthetically “nicer” after birth injuries, because I don’t believe women should have to conform to some kind of aesthetic that says vaginas and vulvas should show no evidence of ever having given birth. Now that’s a feminist issue!

It doesn’t bother me, apart from the need to make sure the skin is properly clean around the scars/tags. It’s great for you if you don’t have this/have never experienced this. But don’t go about denigrating the experience of women who do.)

[ShirleyPhallus]

@myveryownelectrickitten

(And I’ve chosen not to have my vulva reshaped and “fixed” to try to make it look aesthetically “nicer” after birth injuries, because I don’t believe women should have to conform to some kind of aesthetic that says vaginas and vulvas should show no evidence of ever having given birth. Now that’s a feminist issue!

It doesn’t bother me, apart from the need to make sure the skin is properly clean around the scars/tags. It’s great for you if you don’t have this/have never experienced this. But don’t go about denigrating the experience of women who do.)

I’m really sorry that that’s happened to you as it sounds painful to deal with

i don’t think anyone is being rude though, I just literally cannot understand how you couldn’t get clean with the water from a fixed shower head. The water flows down so even if you cupped it in your hands and rinsed like that, or bent over slightly to get the flow directed a bit more, or whatever then basically water is still working in gravity and will flow over your genitals if you’re standing underneath the shower. I just can’t see how a handheld one is that different to a fixed one even with all the issues you describe

[myveryownelectrickitten]

@ShirleyPhallus

I’m really sorry that that’s happened to you as it sounds painful to deal with

i don’t think anyone is being rude though, I just literally cannot understand how you couldn’t get clean with the water from a fixed shower head. The water flows down so even if you cupped it in your hands and rinsed like that, or bent over slightly to get the flow directed a bit more, or whatever then basically water is still working in gravity and will flow over your genitals if you’re standing underneath the shower. I just can’t see how a handheld one is that different to a fixed one even with all the issues you describe

How do you get water from an overhead shower head to clean your perineum without basically turning upside down??!?!

[TomeTome]

The showers at our pool are open and poolside nobody is deep cleaning.

[ShirleyPhallus]

@myveryownelectrickitten

How do you get water from an overhead shower head to clean your perineum without basically turning upside down??!?!

You lean forward and let the water run over your bum, then turn around cup the water in your hand and swish it over?!

[ComtesseDeSpair]

@myveryownelectrickitten

How do you get water from an overhead shower head to clean your perineum without basically turning upside down??!?!

But what it ultimately comes down to is does your individual quite specific need to clean your perineum in a quite specific way, outweigh the practicalities (durability, hygiene, anti-vandalism, cost) of public shower facilities installing fixed shower heads as standard? And I’m going to say no, it doesn’t. Public facilities have to take into account the broad needs of all customers and the needs of the company providing them. It would be nice if they were perfect in every way for all of us, but they’re never going to be. That isn’t the same as saying you don’t have a need, just that this isn’t one this particular facility needs to accommodate.

[wonkylegs]

This is a non issue
If you are that sensitive that you need this I would be questioning the ability to swim in a public swimming pool in the first place
Some people may have a preference for a different type of shower but that's a preference and they can always go home and have a more thorough shower.
You could always take a small plastic jug to help if you found your hands insufficient.

Public showers are chosen predominantly to be safe, robust and keep working. Flexible hoses cause issues with damage, safety and hygiene so tend to be avoided in high maintenance situations.