Toilet doors removed - secondary school

[sparkie1972]

I've just received a letter from my daughters school, to say that they have removed the outside doors to the girls and boys toilets, to resolve the issue of students congregating in there during lesson times. The main cubical doors will remain in tact, but the move would allow staff to look check quickly if learners are standing by the sink area. I'm concerned about the privacy and dignity of the girls being eroded. Any ideas on how to approach this with the school?

When I went to secondary school there was never any doors between the corridor and the sink area. There were separate cubicles with doors.

I don't ever remember it being a problem.

Now they have an external door which is locked during lesson time which is causing an issue.

It’s very easy to criticise but what are the solutions that schools can fund and manage appropriately?

Think motorway service layout is what we had.

And every service station I visit still doesn't have an external door. You'll probably find you use facilities like this more often than you think.

But in what way is privacy and dignity being eroded @tsmainsqueeze, specifically? I get very bent out of shape when I see unisex bathrooms, intact transgender males being allowed into women's spaces etc... I honestly don't see what the issue is here. It's where people wash their hands and will go a ways towards stopping truancy, bullying, vaping/smoking etc. I just don't see the issue here?

Plus taking the exterior door off means they can’t be locked during lesson time
which has caused lots of problems in some schools.

Yes, that’s what ours are like

I work in a school which is a relatively new build and the toilets are open to the corridors so sinks are visible. The cubicles are all floor to ceiling doors and although they are next to each other there are toilets designated male and female. I have never heard of anyone having an issue with using them.
the big issue we contend with is pupils wanting to leave class to go to the toilet instead of using them at break and lunchtime. I don’t think there is any reason that the majority of young people cannot plan to use the toilets at break times, like staff do. The open aspect of the toilets supports the more anxious pupil as the social area is clearly visible to all.

Our school toilets didn't have outer doors and it was built 200 years ago. I never once gave it a single thought.

That would have meant I was unable to climb up and check that any teenager who had locked themselves in the cubicle and not responded to repeated knocking was conscious.

They will have floor to ceiling cubicles. That's the only way they can do this. Im sure it would have been thought about from all angles in preparation from parent backlash

This is what my local high school has too. I think it’s a good option. I know some people are concerned about people having a medical issue and not knowing they are there though.

Non issue really . They're far bigger battles to fight than this.
I'm my day, those spaces were where the bullies hung out, delighted to see the back of them.

DD’s school spent £110,000 redoing the toilets. This includes ensuring cubicles were private so that no one could look above or below to embarrass or bully kids. They all got trashed by a minority of kids vaping and hanging about. Tbh I don’t blame the schools, perhaps if the kids respected their environment (I know it’s not all) they wouldn’t have an issue. They don’t have money to repair every 5 mins. So they have to do something.

Are there any girls in the school who cover their hair for religious reasons? If so I'd be asking what provision they have for private space for this to be re arranged etc if needed. It could well be that PE changing rooms are available or accessible cubicles / rooms that would work too.

Good idea. I thought you meant doors to cubicles which of course wouldn't be acceptable. It's hard to stop bad behaviouepr when it's happening behind closed doors.

I think back to my school days and even through it was a very middle class environment there were still smokers and older pupils who would tell younger kids they 'can't use these loos' and the loos all ended up an utter mess by the end of lunch. I used to go the whole day without using the toilet and then have a 1 hour commute home, my bladder was constantly in pain until I got to sixth form. Anything that takes the anxiety away from using the toilet for kids is a good thing in my mind, has there been any research into what the kids think of the changes?

Your being ridiculous
It's keeping it safe for everyone

I understand where you're coming from, but I think that PPs are right in that it should cut down on bullying and intimidating behaviour which makes using the toilets an issue for some pupils.
So long as the cubicle doors stay in place and locks are maintained, privacy is still intact.

I understand the points about bullying, skiving and misbehaviour behind a closed door. But on the other side there's the hair covering issue mentioned by Twizbe, and what if a girl bleeds onto her skirt/trousers and needs to rinse it/them under the sink and dry under the hand dryer?

The comparison with service station loos is invalid because they have dog-leg entrances precisely so passers by can't look in.

Schools are very different now to when I was at school so all the concerns raised re adjusting hair coverings and rinsing clothes are covered elsewhere - either through accessible toilets/going to first aid/guidance staff for replacement clothing. In my experience young people do come and ask for help if there are any issues and are supported. None of my pupils have raised concern about the toilets being open to the corridor. If anything I believe this arrangement supports girls far more than the previous arrangement and I don’t believe their privacy and dignity is being eroded by this at all.

My DD’s school is a relatively new building, less than 20 years old, as was her precious school. They don’t build school toilets with doors anymore.

Are there really women who would remove their underwear and clothing and rinse the blood off it in a shared sink area? Especially as a teenage girl in a school?

I favour the cubicles with sinks inside but it's not a cheap option.

It's the same at my daughter's school. Outstanding school in a very nice area and all that but bullying issues in the toilets became a huge issue and now the toilets are locked during lessons and the kids aren't allowed to use them except at breaktimes.

Which means doubling up on sanitary protection and using night time pads during the day.

There is one toilet in the reception area that can be accessed in an absolute emergency.

Everyone saying its fine -would you like it if doors in a cafe or your office opened straight onto where you were sitting working so everyone could see you walking into a cubicle?

Cubicle doors in school toilets are usually tiny so you can hear everything, see feet etc and will be able to do so from the corridor.

Couldn't they just have replaced with clear doors so there is still a barrier but can still see in?

Tbh, the kids have ruined it for themselves.