Toilet doors removed - secondary school

[sparkie1972]

I've just received a letter from my daughters school, to say that they have removed the outside doors to the girls and boys toilets, to resolve the issue of students congregating in there during lesson times. The main cubical doors will remain in tact, but the move would allow staff to look check quickly if learners are standing by the sink area. I'm concerned about the privacy and dignity of the girls being eroded. Any ideas on how to approach this with the school?

[Ragruggers]

If the toilet doors are there how is there a problem?

[Winter41]

Toilets in school are always a problem area. There really isn't a good answer. I work in a decent school , mostly the kids are great amd behaviour management systems are good. However currently our 'doorless' toilets are often the only ones in use due to vandalism in the more discreet ones. I also know of a school where there was a serious sexual assault in school toilets so I understand why schools are taking this approach. I understand and share your concerns though, but I am not sure what the answer is.

We have staff monitoring the toilets during breaks but this cannot happen during lesson time. Yet if we don't allow students access during lessons there are (again, understandably ) complaints about that too.

[Meggymoo777]

You don't approach the school... this is literally a non issue as there are still cubicle doors. Privacy and dignity are not being eroded and you're being ridiculous

[Theraffarian]

Quite normal in secondary schools , the individual cubicals tend to face each other not outwards towards the opening , so privacy is maintained. The hand wash area in ours is viewable through windows too but really a non issue . Other toilets throughout are individual ones with outside handwash facilities.

[thatsn0tmyname]

Our school has floor to ceiling cubicles, separate sex, with basins that are visible from the corridor. Any teacher can stand in the corridor and police the loos without entering or eroding dignity. We have a vape and self harm issue in our school and this helps us with safeguarding.

[Elsanore]

I worked in a school that got a brand new building in about 2014. The toilet arrangement you describe was what the toilets in the new school were like. No door from corridor to sinks area but cubicle doors. I definitely made it easier to patrol corridors while on duty and check behaviour in the toilets was fine. Also stopped kids lingering in the loos when out of class during lesson time.

However I did feel that the cubicles should have had doors floor to ceiling, not gaps at the bottom and top. For better privacy for kids, seen as people on corridors could see straight into toilets areas.

[tootiredtospeak]

100 percent needed in secondary the bullying that can happen in toilets they need to be open with just cubicle doors.

[tillyoumakeit]

Have to say I agree with PP on this - it's fine and standard for schools now and helps protect kids from bullying/assault in toilets. At my DC's school they have (very sadly) moved to majority mixed sex toilets - admittedly floor to ceiling doors on cubicles - but I am far more concerned about that than whether there are doors from the corridor.

[Universalheadaches]

I’d rather this than the situation at my dc ex school - toilets LOCKED except at break times (then there were huge queues ) and the only toilet for medical needs was nicer near enough in an emergency and most teachers queried the toilet pass so we de registered as it was horrendous. I can imagine social services being involved if a parent restricted access to the toilet at home …

[Universalheadaches]

Nicer - not

[Tallulasdancingshoes]

A school local to me has the toilet area open on the main corridor. So all cubicles have full, lockable doors (totally private so no issues there) but all the basins and hand dryers are in an area off the corridor. This means pupils can’t congregate in the toilets on their phones. They can be easily managed by staff on duty so younger pupils don’t feel intimidated by old pupils hanging out in them. Plus, if pupils go to the toilet during lesson time they can’t be hiding, avoiding lessons, because they’ll be seen. Overall I think it’s a good idea.

[Matildapower]

It can stop bullying, skiving from lessons and vaping. They still have cubicle doors for privacy. Total non issue

[Nimbostratus100]

This is completely standard, and not an issue

[Believeitornot]

Has anyone asked the kids? I was talking to my dd about using sanitary towels in school and she was worrying about the rustling noise. She then decided she’d never change a pad during school hours.

So unless schools invest in proper toilet cubicles (they won’t) and the government puts enough money into education to ensure proper staffing levels such that schools don’t have to make these sort of changes, then it will continue.

I feel sorry for teenage girls in mixed schools quite frankly.

[Matildapower]

Her pad would still rustle if the front door was on. In my school the front door stays in on if the cubicles face the door, in all others they go round a corner to access toilets and the sinks can be seen but not the cubicles.

[Matildapower]

Op why is this eroding their privacy and dignity ?

[oviraptor21]

Because they can be seen when they are washing their hands or sorting out clothing etc in the wash area.

[Matildapower]

God forbid anyone see you washing your hands !!!!!!

[Matildapower]

I’m more concerned about the bullying tbf

[JustAnotherManicNameChange]

In what way do you feel privacy and dignity rights are being eroded?

[whowhatwerewhy]

This should happen in all schools, children still have privacy as the cubicle doors are on . Can't see a problem in being able to see someone wash there hands or do there hair .

[Thelnebriati]

Many of the toilets in schools now don't sound like they meet the standards.
Toilets are supposed to be single access or single sex. Cubicles with floor to ceiling doors are supposed to have the washbasin inside the cubicle.

Snarky comments about hand washing ignore the fact that girls can be bullied for washing blood off their hands at the sinks. If I had a daughter at school now, I'd supply her with wipes to use in the cubicle.

[tsmainsqueeze]

@Meggymoo777

You don't approach the school... this is literally a non issue as there are still cubicle doors. Privacy and dignity are not being eroded and you're being ridiculous

I don't agree , i hate the way schools are behaving over toilets and other petty rules.
I once thought my daughters school was one of the more sensible ones but with a recent new head changes are seeping in , its a decent school with a good local reputation .
I don't know what the answer is but i agree that privacy and dignity is being eroded , respect too and i am right behind any kids and their parents who get involved with a peaceful protest .

[Matildapower]

@Thelnebriati

Many of the toilets in schools now don't sound like they meet the standards.
Toilets are supposed to be single access or single sex. Cubicles with floor to ceiling doors are supposed to have the washbasin inside the cubicle.

Snarky comments about hand washing ignore the fact that girls can be bullied for washing blood off their hands at the sinks. If I had a daughter at school now, I'd supply her with wipes to use in the cubicle.

And who’s going to pay for that ? School budgets have been cut to the bone as it is and the government won’t provide extra funding. And how do you solve the bullying, bunking off and vaping that clearly goes on when the doors are on ?

[Matildapower]

@tsmainsqueeze

I don't agree , i hate the way schools are behaving over toilets and other petty rules.
I once thought my daughters school was one of the more sensible ones but with a recent new head changes are seeping in , its a decent school with a good local reputation .
I don't know what the answer is but i agree that privacy and dignity is being eroded , respect too and i am right behind any kids and their parents who get involved with a peaceful protest .

‘You don’t know what the answer is’, yet the schools are trying to find an answer to the anti social behaviour that goes on in toilets.