Explaining surrogacy to kids when I'm anti surrogacy

[Sussyknowsthemeaningoflife]

Apologies for the clunky title. We have just found out a member of extended family is expecting via surrogate. I am deeply deeply uncomfortable with this, but I'm capable of keeping my views to myself ( forever more?) But how on earth do I explain surrogacy to my own kids?
I'm not anti this new baby who is due any day, I'm not anti this family member. But I very strongly disagree with the route they have chosen to take.
My dd in particular (12) is going to watch me very closely and ask how I REALLY feel. We have age appropriate feminist discussions all the time. How do I discuss this with her?

This is the simple fact that people like to ignore.

I used to think surrogacy was lovely. Then I worked in an area where I came across a lot of surrogacy cases. Now I think that it should be banned. If I could legislate in such a way to allow genuine, altruistic, surrogacy within a family, maybe I’d consider it, but the problems with the rest of the industry are too huge.

I’d add to the list of issues: surrogacy agencies inducing early labour as a way to pay the surrogate mothers less (hard to prove, but the number of preterm surrogate births is very high).

Even in the UK where it is supposedly not allowed to pay a surrogate mother, I’ve never seen a case where the surrogate mother was in a better financial position than the commissioning parent/s.

Sorry OP, I realise I have been no help to you!

@29052022J Genuine question: do you think your sister would have been ok if neither you nor your sister had felt able to offer to do surrogacy for her, and she'd been unable to find someone else to do it? How would your parents have felt about it?

surrogacy agencies inducing early labour as a way to pay the surrogate mothers less (hard to prove, but the number of preterm surrogate births is very high).
An alternative may be that there are more multiples and or pregnancies with donor eggs are less likely to go full term but either way the law needs to cover the worst case scenarios - the surrogate mother suffers a birth injury, the surrogate mother changes her mind (either about the baby she is carrying or about providing future siblings), there are unplanned triplets and one party wants a reduction but the other doesn't, the child is born with a disability/ congenital condition, the intended parents split up or one of them gets life limiting illness or dies, there is a global pandemic and the intended parents can't travel to the surrogate mother's home country). It's easy to think of surrogacy as a wonderful thing if you just focus on a couple who desperately want a baby holding one in their arms but the law has to think about all potential outcomes.

Wow.

I'd like to live life as an ostrich too.

Wasn't there a case recently where a surrogacy agreement included regular contact between the baby and surrogate mother. Then the commissioning parents changed their mind and refused contact.

I can't remember what the outcome was, but the surrogate mother was clear she'd have not agreed to the agreement without the regular contact.

I think it is different if it's a family member or close friend. I think it's similar to organ donation, that nobody is entitled to use somebody else's body, or should be able to pay to do so, but you should be allowed to offer your body to help someone you care about.

The current narrative that there is an expectation you can use someone else in this way is horrible, though.

Was it this one @Twizbe ?

Surrogacy deal is overturned in first UK case of its kind www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4752888-surrogacy-deal-is-overturned-in-first-uk-case-of-its-kind

If there is exploitation and coercion in medicine it's unethical and we absolutely should be honest about it and not overlook it.

Stuff like trauma in childbirth from lack of proper consent absolutely is not ok and is being challenged as bad practice that causes emotional harm that doesn't benefit women (or their children)

Unethical experiments on various minority groups are very much being looked at in hindsight as being unacceptable and practices tightened up to try and stop it happening again.

In terms of benefits, if you've been a victim, you absolutely haven't benefitted. We are recognising this more and more.

Still a long way to go but it's progress on the past.

Thanks for the many replies. I bit the bullet and told her earlier.

She was very excited, loves babies. I explained the baby is being bornt o a surrogate who has carried it for them. Her questions were...in this order
Is it like Ivf?
Is it like adoption?
So will the baby have 2 mums?
Is it because relative is too old?
So the mum has to give the baby away?
After that one she said " I don't think I'd like that. I mean it's completely their choice, but I couldn't ask a mum to give me the baby"
We have left it there for now. I won't stop her asking awkward questions of the family member in the future. She's excited. I referred to the baby as "new our name baby, yay!"
I'm sure there will be more questions later.
Thanks for the input and interesting points.
I particularly like pp suggestion to refer to surrogate mother rather than just surrogate. I shall do so from now on.

OP, could you talk to her about surrogacy as a women's issue? Tell her that having a baby is a massive commitment and what a mother does to grow and birth a baby is something so special and unique but also really hard and risky to a woman's health. That asking a woman to go through that for you and then she doesn't even get to be part of that baby's life is a very poor way to respect women.

Talk about how much you love your DD and the thought of being without her is painful. Have her imagine the surrogate mother's experience.

Your DD will soon(or is) getting her period so this is a perfect time to talk about respect for women and our reproductive autonomy. How women should not be exploited for our bodies.

This isn't a criticism of the baby. It's an acknowledgment that the baby is being separated from its birth mother on purpose and that's another reason you feel bad for the baby and bad for the surrogate mom. Good luck. I have a friend who had babies by surrogate and I've stayed friends but still hate what she did. I just focus on other things when she's around and we don't talk about surrogacy. She knew I didn't agree with it; we don't talk much about it.

I think let her lead and stick to facts auxin as possible - you don’t need to jump on with your opinion. You can say ‘ I think this’ but acknowledge others will think differently. Like with a lot of things in life!

OP - I almost forgot! My DD at 15 was sent loads of advertising to donate her eggs. This came after she did a lot of internet searches for colleges and sports scholarships. I was so angry she was being sold this rosy picture of egg selling. Watch out for your DD as she may be targeted on TikTok and Instagram with ads to sell her eggs and get a trip to Paris!

I would t do any if that until well after that baby is born and ‘integrated’ into the family.

Whilst I agree with the many issues around surrogacy, it’s a theoretical issue for her and her dd. There is a real baby there and that baby should not suffer from the way he was born.

That’s a discussion to have if the dd wants to. But not when the surrogate is still pregnant and certainly not with emotive words such as ‘how awful it would be to be separated from dd’.

I completely agree, but there are so many parents and children who go through so many traumatic experiences. A lot of people can’t help this (being away from the mother due to complications at birth). And those whose eggs are donated, do we really know if it’s from being grown in a body, or it’s the scent and dna that the baby wants? In terms of adoption, it happens too, there are those that can’t cope. Babies and children do well being brought up in a loving household. Being loved is more important than anything else.

It’s odd that after all those questions, the father wasn’t mentioned at all. Please talk about the dad or ‘sperm giver’. It’s not as rosy for them, and reiterates the narrative that it’s a woman’s job to bring up the children.

I’m aware of the issues around the potential exploitation of a surrogate mother but less familiar with the issues that the baby might experience after separation from the surrogate mother. What are the issues here?

Explain that a kind person has agreed to carry a child for a couple who would otherwise not be able to have their biological child.

It sounds like your DD got to the core issues there by herself without any direction from you @Sussyknowsthemeaningoflife - it must have been tricky navigating that, but it sounds as though this thread has been useful for you.

I suppose your DD may have more questions in coming days and weeks, especially as the pregnancy progresses and it isn't so visible or present in day to day life of your relative, but as a first discussion it sounds pretty comprehensive to me. She'll be able to come to you to ask questions which is the main thing.

Posters here may want to join this discussion as the OP has updated us.

Question for those who are againts surrogacy www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4757200-question-for-those-who-are-againts-surrogacy

Yes. My DD and her friend were home from uni when adverts for London egg bank plopped into their Instagram!

Way to go for summer holiday fun. Be an egg donor.

Not a mention that in 18 years time that summer fun could be knocking on your door.

If your daughter is up for learning about IVF, egg retrieval and egg donation this photo journal tells all she needs to know.

www.weareeggdonors.com/blog/photo-essay

Needless to say, she won't be "donating" eggs again.

And she feels guilty for prioritising her own health.

Don't teach your daughter to "Be Kind" OP.

"Despite the fact that I have two other IPs who want me to donate, I will not be donating again. I feel very guilty for having to turn them down, but there is no way I can let myself go through this again. It has had such a huge impact on my health and my day to day life"

If surrogacy is a good choice and no harm comes to mother or baby, why is it only poor women who are commercial surrogates? Why are celebrities not queuing up to offer to be surrogates for their celebrity friends? Surely if it’s such a moral altruistic thing to do, they’d be chomping at the bit?