I thought Penny Mordaunt was a decent person & could do a job - this is not to do with political alliances - I also take interest in other parties' leader / spokespeople

[BasiliskStare]

But tell me if I am wrong she said yesterday that transwomen are women - well that's me hoping she comes no where near leading this country .

As I say this is a topic I think about , and any politician of whatever party who do not stick up for women , well , can't be doing with them

This really isn't a Labour vs Conservative post - just she seemed to be a competent woman and then this.

[DreardryBarlow]

She made an absolute tit of herself on here a few years ago with her Mumsnet webchat.

Blah blah avoid the question blah blah be patronising blah blah ignore the massive questions about woman and children blah blah

[TooBigForMyBoots]

Penny Mordaunt was a chief architect of Self ID under Theresa May's GRA Reform. She is full on TWAW and has been for as long as I remember her.

She was here a few years ago.<<this is thev3rd time today I've linked this>>
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/penny-mourdant-mumsnet-gender-recognition-act-a8835621.html%3famp

[DreardryBarlow]

This great blog piece was the first time I ever came across Maya Forstater

mforstater.medium.com/85-questions-outside-the-minister-for-womens-office-32cf4c084b05

[DreardryBarlow]

Maya's piece got picked up by The Independent

www.independent.co.uk/voices/penny-mourdant-mumsnet-gender-recognition-act-a8835621.html

The headline and sub-header:

Has Penny Mordaunt got away with the worst Mumsnet performance ever?

Questions that Mordaunt didn’t answer started with the basics: what is a woman, can humans change sex, and in what circumstances is it necessary to distinguish between males and females?

[BasiliskStare]

Thank you both - I would rather have two robust leaders who support women , ( in the sense we normally get down to two , - unless a coalition ) because I think it is good to have a choice, & of the Conservatives I thought she might be good but then my Dh pointed this out to me. I think Starmer has been very ropey on this subject - so it will be interesting to see how things work out. It will be interesting to see how 1) her leadership plays out and 2) next GE how much this point will be important for most voters.

[abc5432]

If you've followed her career so closely, I am surprised you weren't aware of her TWAW stance. I cannot understand how any woman of intelligence can even begin to subscribe to this anti-science/anti- biological reality view.
I don't think the Tories will elect her as PM but if they do, there will be no mainstream party in the UK for women to vote for.
I think all the 'cross=party working group' gender woo on self-id got endorsed by Theresa May (who should have known better) because she was so distracted by Brexit at the time.
Thank goodness Liz Truss and Boris called a halt.

[DreardryBarlow]

Penny Mordaunt is foolish insulting MN posters. Many women posting on MN FWR are involved in the media, politics, academia and the law, and have contacts.

As it happens, a political editor contact (who is aware of the gender woo background) says that she doesn't have a cat in hells chance but that it's fun seeing what plays out when she's given an ounce of encouragement.

Her supporters Andrea Leadsom and Caroline Dinenage are currently oblivious to just how hardcore Mordaunt's ideology is.

[SheldontheWonderSchlong]

I don't even see this as a 'sticking up for women' issue now. It's a matter of truth-telling. We all know she doesn't really believe it, yet she's happy to lie about a fundamental truth. It's as bad as telling people that she believes the earth is flat, when she's seen the curve of the earth from an aeroplane.

[BasiliskStare]

Yes I think it is a telling the truth issue - not sticking up for women - I expressed that badly .

Ah well I had not done enough reading about her - but now I have. Will there be a decent leader of any party who is not TWAW or do you think this is a garner support issue but come the GE they don't think it will count. Obviously the economy & other things etc etc count but I wonder if this issue is counted "not enough" to worry about

[TooBigForMyBoots]

@SheldontheWonderSchlong

I don't even see this as a 'sticking up for women' issue now. It's a matter of truth-telling. We all know she doesn't really believe it, yet she's happy to lie about a fundamental truth. It's as bad as telling people that she believes the earth is flat, when she's seen the curve of the earth from an aeroplane.

She has always struck me as totally believing TWAW. What makes you think she's faking it @SheldontheWonderSchlong?

[SheldontheWonderSchlong]

Because I don't see how an even relatively intelligent person could truly believe in anything so nonsensical! We have thousands of years of proof it's not true - humans cannot change sex - just as we have millions of years of proof that the earth isn't flat.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

Penny Mordaunt does. Being a Tory does not provide protection to Gender Woo, see also Nichola Richards, the Conservstive MP for Bridgend and many others. Including Tory MPs who set the cops on women for stating GC views. If it did, we wouldn't be in this position.

I am surprised you didn't know this about her though. She isn't a patsy, she is quite responsible for the trans shitshow and she hasn't changed. Last year she blasted the HoL for opposing Trans agenda in a Matetnity Bill. As a Conservative Minister. At the Despatch Box.

[BasiliskStare]

I did rather enjoy Robert Winston on Question time & whatever else you think about the man he is an eminent Biologist , gynaecologist , expert in IVF - He know where of he speaks and he said ( prefaced by I might get hate mail for this ) a man cannot biologically become a woman - which to me informs a great deal of this debate in that for me trans women - good on you - if that is what you want to do , do it I support you and there should be no discrimination against any trans people , but do not impose any nomenclature or unfair laws on me or any other woman. I suspect many trans women don't give a hoot and it is small but v vocal groups who are making this into a big deal .There must be a better way of sorting it out .

[SheldontheWonderSchlong]

@TooBigForMyBoots

Penny Mordaunt does. Being a Tory does not provide protection to Gender Woo, see also Nichola Richards, the Conservstive MP for Bridgend and many others. Including Tory MPs who set the cops on women for stating GC views. If it did, we wouldn't be in this position.

I am surprised you didn't know this about her though. She isn't a patsy, she is quite responsible for the trans shitshow and she hasn't changed. Last year she blasted the HoL for opposing Trans agenda in a Matetnity Bill. As a Conservative Minister. At the Despatch Box.

I just don't accept that anyone truly, deep down to their very core, can believe it. I think somewhere they know there's cognitive dissonance there but choose to ignore it. Perhaps it's being neuro divergent- my thinking tends to be very black or white and I can't abide unfairness or lying 🤷🏼‍♀️

[BasiliskStare]

I will hold my hands up to not having seen her views on this before yesterday - so shame on me. No further criticism required - have taken that on the chin.

This really isn't a party thing I was just looking at those who had thrown their hat into the ring & when I read this - I thought - Goodness I hope we do not get you.

I don't think Labour have been great and that disappoints me

Do you think this has come down to - will we get more votes from the TWAW line , or do people really believe it ( I find that hard to believe ) or do they just not think this is an important enough issue to make a difference in a GE?

[Athenajm80]

Is it Sajid Javid that is GC and supports lots of VAWG and women's rights things? If so, I want him to win. He seems fairly decent, although I expect someone will tell me all the bad things he's done. I'm ashamed to say I haven't really paid too much attention to politics in the past so may well be wrong about him.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I will hold my hands up to nott having seen her views on this before yesterday - so shame on me.

TBF to you and others@BasiliskStare, Tory involvement seems to have been written out/minimised when it comes to how we got here. It's a bit like that film, Yesterday.🙂

Or IT.🤡😱

[SerenaVanDerWoodsenHumphrey]

There are a few threads on some of the candidates, including on Mordaunt, over on the Feminism: Sex & Gender board. Sunak has made a declaration about women's rights as part of his campaign, which is linked and discussed here, also something possibly related from Zahawi. And an older Badenoch thread, revived, with some new comments on her candidacy. I'm probably missing some ....

Someone also posted this article from Sex Matters with a little assessment of each of the known (or rumoured) candidates' prior expressed views and actions re women's rights, although I think some more things have happened over the weekend: https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/will-the-next-tory-leader-respectmysex/

[MangyInseam]

@SheldontheWonderSchlong

I just don't accept that anyone truly, deep down to their very core, can believe it. I think somewhere they know there's cognitive dissonance there but choose to ignore it. Perhaps it's being neuro divergent- my thinking tends to be very black or white and I can't abide unfairness or lying 🤷🏼‍♀️

There are absolutely some people who really believe it. Many think that people really can be born in the wrong body and being trans is a kind of intersex. A few people construct some elaborate language around gender vs sex but don't have enough intelligence to see that it's not well grounded. Quite a lot of people are not good at that kind of reasoning and most people don't get any training in it at school.

[Life1sGood]

I had no idea who Penny Mordaunt is until now so can't usefully contribute to the discussion but I just find it so very sad that mumsnet became so extremely transphobic that it's now pretty much all that mumsnet is known for :( I've enjoyed the forums for more than 15 years and got heaps of useful advice about parenting, education and relationships. It had such a mumsy atmosphere all this time. Why do admins tolerate transphobic views that are so political, controversial and dividing?.. Is a parenting forum really an appropriate place for this?

[DdraigGoch]

@Life1sGood

I had no idea who Penny Mordaunt is until now so can't usefully contribute to the discussion but I just find it so very sad that mumsnet became so extremely transphobic that it's now pretty much all that mumsnet is known for :( I've enjoyed the forums for more than 15 years and got heaps of useful advice about parenting, education and relationships. It had such a mumsy atmosphere all this time. Why do admins tolerate transphobic views that are so political, controversial and dividing?.. Is a parenting forum really an appropriate place for this?

So in your view women should discuss sewing, baking and nappy rash?

Being a mother should not stop a woman from standing up for her rights.

[Chillinoncarneisunderrated]

You should visit parts of her constituency ! Talk about extremes!

[theclangersarecoming]

@Life1sGood

I had no idea who Penny Mordaunt is until now so can't usefully contribute to the discussion but I just find it so very sad that mumsnet became so extremely transphobic that it's now pretty much all that mumsnet is known for :( I've enjoyed the forums for more than 15 years and got heaps of useful advice about parenting, education and relationships. It had such a mumsy atmosphere all this time. Why do admins tolerate transphobic views that are so political, controversial and dividing?.. Is a parenting forum really an appropriate place for this?

Because men are not women?

Do you believe that men can turn into women?

[calmlakes]

Why do admins tolerate transphobic views that are so political, controversial and dividing?..
Women get back to talking about nappy rash and other fluffy non divisive views.
Certainly no politics for mums, ever.

[MrsMiggins9100]

MrsMiggins9100 · Today 17:45
In the TV debate last night, she sought to clarify her view on women etc. But she was highly duplicitous. She kept saying she was a biological women, leaving the door open to acknowledge transwomen as women, albeit other women. When in power she could then say ALL women, including biological and trans. Women do not need biological in front of their own word. It is nonsense. She is dangerous and too swayed by her brother and his fiancé David Paisesly the trans activist who sues women for saying women are women. She is very keen on self-ID, meaning any man, under new planned laws, can say he is a women and get a £5.00 certificate will be allowed into our spaces. No thanks!!