I thought Penny Mordaunt was a decent person & could do a job - this is not to do with political alliances - I also take interest in other parties' leader / spokespeople

[BasiliskStare]

But tell me if I am wrong she said yesterday that transwomen are women - well that's me hoping she comes no where near leading this country .

As I say this is a topic I think about , and any politician of whatever party who do not stick up for women , well , can't be doing with them

This really isn't a Labour vs Conservative post - just she seemed to be a competent woman and then this.

I dont think any of the messages I have read are transphobic but they do reflect women's real concerns over men coming into their, and their Daughers spaces, and not feeling safe. It is written in to law for a reason that women are entitled to single sex, not gender, spaces. Sexual offences are caused by men over 98% of the time, and not sure if this is well known, but 97% of transwomen are fully intact men. Only 3 % have surgery. Whereas over 60% of transmen, who are women, have their breasts cut off. Horrific and as Professor Robert Winston said yesterday, this is mutilation.

I have voted Conservative all my life but I won't vote in GE for a women who thinks transwomen are women. I just can't. I would prefer Kemi or Liz who both know what a women is. This is a top issue for me. Don't know how we can trust a person, who does not even know the difference between a man and a woman to run our country.

@TooBigForMyBoots Thank you for that .😊🍷 The truth is I have not taken much interest in many Conservative MPs & I am not impressed either with many Labour MPs on the TWAW issue. & obviously there are so many other issues to deal with . The reason I have taken an interest in this is that like it or not we will have a PM for the next couple of years so inter alia I want to know re economy / cost of living etc , of course , but I do want to know where candidates stand on this. So As far as I can see ( correct me anyone ) Penny M has said there are biological women and legal women - that's a start for me ) but I can't see where she talks in any meaningful way about the difference between the two in the sense of what rights they have It would just be lovely to see someone properly talking about TW rights versus women's rights.

@Life1sGood there is nothing transphobic about wanting the pretty minimal protections afforded to women and girls by virtue of biological sex to be preserved, not demolished.

We have single sex spaces (toilets, prisons, school residential dorms, rape crisis centres) for reasons: because some men are predatory (whether via physical attack, intimidation or covert filming); because some men make women and girls feel uncomfortable about their bodies; because sometimes when we are vulnerable, the presence of men leaves us unable to function/ access the help we need. And we have sex segregated sports because no amount of testosterone suppression in the world will bring the performance of an athlete who has been through male puberty to a level where women can compete.

There is nothing transphobic at all about not wanting to lose what took decades to achieve or not suddenly pretending that safeguarding can be maintained if self-selected males are assumed to somehow not have the same proportion of threatening behaviours as the rest of the male population.

it is not transphobic to expect the government department responsible for collecting accurate statistics in order to plan health services etc to count by biological sex as well as gender identity.

It is not transphobic to expect the language used in public health messaging to be clear and accessible. And it is not transphobic to draw attention to the fact that none of the messages aimed at men have been rewritten for ‘inclusivity’, only those for women.

Opposing self-id is not a position against services, spaces or other provision for trans people. It is the preservation of our right to define ourselves and our boundaries. As a woman and a parent, this over-rides everything politically for me at present. If we lose our definition, we lose any meaningful information on ‘gender’ pay gaps, mortality rates, academic performance, victims and perpetrators of crime, response to vaccines, representation in public life and on FTSE boards, and equality impact assessments become pointless.

MN is doing a massive public service by not shutting down discussion of these things. Thank you admins.