Babies barred from house of commons... WTAF

[AdamRyan]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61987339

Unbelievable that MPs who are mums can not take their babies into the HoC and therefore not be able to vote or participate in debates.

MPs don't get maternity leave either.

This seems like its going to be a significant hindrance to getting more female representation and also like we are going backwards in terms of women's participation in public life

Quoting this from yesterday as it links to a really good Twitter thread on the issue

I agree with others that taking your baby to work isn't really the answer, whoever you are. Things certainly need to change in the HoP to modernise parental rights and facilities, and perhaps there needs to be some serious consideration given to more than the standard idea of maternity leave, which isn't going to really answer the calls on MP's. That said, I would think subjecting a baby to Boris Johnson is probably a form of child cruelty.

Why could you not breast feed? I did for two years while working as a full time NHS consultant in a hospital and never once taking my baby to work. I only got 12 weeks maternity leave. So I would say that the MPs should get that too, with pairing for votes that take place during that period. Then a creche available (which was not the case for me).

Stella Creasey's constituency is Walthamstow. So there's no more reason for childcare to be more difficult for her than it is for my nurse daughter who does 13 hour plus shifts with a 45 minute commute, and oddly enough, can't take her baby to work with her.

Creasy is an attention seeker. It’s all about the drama!

Constituents don't vote for some generalized person to represent them, even a generalized person who votes in a way that someone else tells them.

They vote, in only four year increments, for a specific person to work for them, deal with their concerns, sit in the House and participate there, and to make considered decisions about what to vote for.

It's a problem if for a quarter of that time said person is unavailable to do those things personally.

Being an MP isn't really like other jobs, not least in that they can be dismissed from their position just because people don't like what they are doing. It's not a career where you have job security you can depend on.

Taking off any significant amount of time becomes a problem, not just for maternity leave, but for any health concerns or other reasons. Democratic processes are for the people, not the MP, in a way that I don't think really compares to any other position.

It isn't about Stella Creasey.
Its about how any woman MP can balance serving her constituents with being a breastfeeding mother.
Personally I see no issue with infants in the HoC, to preserve the principle of an elected representative
But delegation/proxy voting/mat leave would also work
What doesn't work is expecting women to choose between being an MP and being a mother. That means we don't have a parliament that represents voters, a great many of who are mothers. That is not democratic.

I agree she seems to be an attention seeker. She looks an absolute twit turning up for work with the baby strapped on to her like that. Totally unnecessary. It is really inappropriate and unprofessional..

I would say the same if a male MP turned up for work with a baby strapped to him. Ridiculous. It does Labour no favours. Other woman are not allowed to turn up for work with a baby. Nurses for example. Ballerinas, the cashier at Asda.
No. They need to find childcare like everybody else. And on a lot less money than MPs.

@AdamRyan it's been discussed at length throughout this thread how an MP can balance bf with fulfilling their responsibilities without needing to bring their children into the chamber.

Although MPs don't have ML as such (because it's an elected position and different to a 'job') they have numerous options open to them which are actually hugely advantageous compared to the situation many working mothers are in. Have you actually read the twitter posts by Alice Kearns who has actually experience of being a working mum and MP? She explains that MPs have the following advantages:
-can use proxy voting for 6 months
-can attend debates if they choose but pop in and out flexibly (they are never denied this) if they want to be with their child
-they can use the on-site childcare facility or if they prefer a nanny/other childcarer, they can remain nearby in the House of Commons

• In addition to their £84000 basic pay, they are also paid expenses for things like staff and they have an uplift to this staffing allowance during their period when they use childcare

And a few people are still whinging that MPs who are working parents have got it tough...

Finally, the children who have been brought into the chamber have been 3 months upwards. They don't even need to have a nanny nearby taking care of them (which incidentally would be completely allowable and damn well ought to be affordable on
84k plus) - these children are eligible to be in the childcare facility provided on site.
What MPs have available sounds like most working parents' dream.

Totally oerformative behaviour on the part of a couple of MPs which has backfired on them by making them look unprofessional and out of touch with reality.

*performative

Totally unprofessional of MPs.

I struggle to think of a female (or male) CEO taking much parental leave (not consistent with their role) but they still manage without taking a baby to work.

I went back to work when DD was 13 weeks. BF til she was well into toddlerhood (and beyond). I took her to work once. When she was 8 weeks and they really needed me. For 2 hours. Otherwise no, I found ways to make it work, because running a big sales team with a baby attached doesn't work. She never once took a bottle, and my lunch hours were horrible hectic, because unlike Stella, there was no crèche and I wasn't earbing £84k to pay a nanny so the baby couldn't wait outside the office if my presence was mandated.

The lack of maternity leave is an issue but taking babies into the chamber is not. Apart from anything else, this is important work. So if they are fully present, how can they give their child the requisite attention? If the baby is fully looked after, is the MP able to fully participate? Not appropriate. That isn't misogyny.

It's the same old dilemma. Can women have it all? Yes. Can they have it all, all of the time? Should they want to? Is working that hard while being fully present for a newborn as desirable as society wants us to think it is?

I think the important thing is to get those things like maternity leave etc in place.

Wrong analogy. The equivalent is "unbelievable that people can't have surgery because surgeons can't appoint stand ins whilst on maternity leave".

And half this thread seems to be saying the solution to that is "women shouldn't be surgeons if they want maternity leave".

We still have people insisting proxies are available for MPs (they are not, only for ministers), that the onsite creche takes babies from birth (it doesn't) and that workplace nurseries are apparently places where babies can just be dumped at will.

The reports I read were that the baby was ten weeks at the time so not old enough. However the debate was scheduled by the house whilst she was out - not something in her control or something for which she will get much notice in order to apply for an early nursery place.

Lets forget this is the Wicked Witch of Wandsworth, guilty of wrong think. Pretend its Rosie Duffield if that helps.

For any woman MP there is no arrangement in place to allow a proxy in the chamber whilst they are on leave. So you are telling voters that if they vote for a woman under 45 they risk being without an MP for a time.

If proxies are possible for Ministers then they should be usable by MPs. In fact half the country don't even know their MP because they vote blue, red or sometimes yellow/orange so I'm not buying the idea that the electorate is that devoted to one individual that a proxy under instruction to vote breaks the democratic bond..

If we aspire to be a modern representative democracy with more women in parliament then we need to stop letting it run like a Victorian gentleman's club and use either proxies or modern technology for remote voting (which they had in place all through the pandemic and JRM, that well known feminist, removed).

This isn't just an issue for mat leave either. MPs having treatment such as chemotherapy or who have limited mobility and remote constituencies find themselves in the similar boat. Perhaps we should simply tell the electorate "just vote for young, healthy men".

All of this. MPs actually have a far more flexible job than most of us. They don't spend much time at Westminster. Much of their job is constituency work which they can do at home.
How many other jobs give you an uplift of your staff expenses to pay for childcare? And allow you to pop in and out of work to see/feed your child?

And as has been said more than once, for six months after the birth, MPs don't have to be in the chamber to vote at all.

We still have people insisting proxies are available for MPs (they are not, only for ministers)
@C8H10N4O2 that is not what it says in the links below.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8359/

guidetoprocedure.parliament.uk/collections/1lh5CMcS/proxy-voting

@C8H10N4O2 look at the facts. Not the sensationalist bullshit.

Btw I entirely agree that many aspects of Parliament need reform; the subsidised bars for a start! But bringing babies into the chamber is absolutely not positive reform. MPs who are parents have it better than the majority of working parents in terms of pay, flexibility, childcare facilities and stand-in arrangements.

What women like Stella Creasy have done is a kick in the teeth for working mums who don't have all her advantages yet manage to do their job professionally

But being an MP is a very specific job where you are elected to represent your constituents for 4 years. You can't take a year of to have a baby and fulfil your brief? They understand this when they become MPs and have to make arrangements to care for their baby, or resign as an MP and have someone who can do the job take their place. It's not a normal 'job'.

I learned a long time ago that viable and acceptable are not synonymous.

There is no need to take a year off anyway though. Thousands of women don't take a year off work. Many can't afford to and besides, year long ML is a very recent phenomenon.

Being an MP isn't a 'job' in the normal sense, because they are elected, they don't apply and get appointed so I understand why the standard maternity regulations don't apply. But surely the point is, as has been demonstrated, there are actually plenty of factors in place which make it entirely possible for them to combine working with parenting. My latest post outlines some of those advantages.

To put it simply: let's suppose MPs were offered the same as millions of working mums:

• in theory up to a year ML but since it's on no where near full pay, thousands of women can't afford to take it all

-NO on-site, extended hours childcare facility for 3 months upward babies -NO allowance for a nanny/ childminder to remain nearby within the place of work -NO a flexibility to pop in and out of the office or indeed to choose not to come in but remain on full pay -NO basic salary of over 84k -NO financial uplift to pay for childcare

.... now, do you honestly think the likes of Stella Creasy or indeed other MP mother would be queuing up to swap places with the average working mum?

Of course not. They know damn well which side their bread is buttered.

The idea that you have to take a year off work to have a baby is just ridiculous. And, as has been pointed out, MPs have a far more flexible job/hours than most people. And are paid enough to afford child are. Moaning about wanting the "right" to take your baby to work with you is not doing any favours to women. It is completely tone deaf when hardly anyone else would have (or expect) such a "right".

@C8H10N4O2 I have pointed out that proxy voting is available to MPs, because it is.

Another briefing from the HoC Library - this time of proxy voting - says “On 23 September 2020, the House agreed to make permanent arrangements for proxy voting, for MPs who are away from Westminster because of childbirth or care of an infant or newly adopted child or where there have been complications relating to childbirth”. (This predates the Act that made provision for Ministers.) Alicia Kearns mentions it too on her Twitter thread.

The Commons website publishes details of the proxy voting scheme for parental leave. The opening paragraphs on eligibility make clear it is for Members, not limited to Ministers. There’s also an article discussing which MPs have used proxy votes for parental leave.

As I said before, there’s plenty of scope for discussing whether all these various provisions and arrangements are enough, but many of the contributions to this thread seem to come from a place of not knowing what the current provisions and arrangements are.

@saraclara I’m sorry I overlooked your post!