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Feminism: chat

Babies barred from house of commons... WTAF

201 replies

AdamRyan · 30/06/2022 09:30

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61987339

Unbelievable that MPs who are mums can not take their babies into the HoC and therefore not be able to vote or participate in debates.

MPs don't get maternity leave either.

This seems like its going to be a significant hindrance to getting more female representation and also like we are going backwards in terms of women's participation in public life

OP posts:
SnowyLamb · 30/06/2022 10:45

What are you going to do when the government's minority is tiny and two women go on ML changing who is actually in power?

Or do you put someone not elected in their place? Democracy?

Or do you elect a temporary replacement, who could be of a different political persuasion?

Will anyone care or will we end up in a situation where women of child bearing age are unselectable or unelectable?

wonderstuff · 30/06/2022 10:49

Before banning babies there needs to be an alternative in place. Until there is babies under 3mo need to be allowed in HoC and HoC business must be restricted to the hours at which the nursery is open. Anything else is surely not taking consideration of the EA. Maternity is a protected characteristic and this surely constitutes discrimination?

wonderstuff · 30/06/2022 10:54

Viviennemary · 30/06/2022 10:02

It's a good decision. Other workplaces don't allow breast feeding mothers as a rule. Why should the HOC be any different.

HoC is different as MPs can’t take maternity leave. This leaves mothers with children under 3 months old unable to represent their constituency. Either an arrangement needs to be in place for remote voting, or the nursery needs to accept newborns, or in some circumstances women need to be able to take newborns into the chamber.

ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave · 30/06/2022 10:56

This leaves mothers with children under 3 months old unable to represent their constituency

Utter nonsense.

sashagabadon · 30/06/2022 10:58

I think women should take mat leave and not feel obliged to drag into work with their 4 week old.

wonderstuff · 30/06/2022 10:59

WineIsMyCarb · 30/06/2022 10:00

What @RedToothBrush has said in full.

There is an onsite crèche. I want more female MPs and I want them to be perceived, as they rightly are, as capable professionals. It's not appropriate to bring your baby into the workplace and having a child strapped to you does nothing to undermine the idea that mothers have enough on to take on a demanding job as well.

Also the role of husbandd/fathers. When Stella Creasy brought her baby in I did wonder where Mr Creasy was.

Mr Creasy presumably can’t lactate? SC is at least living less than an hour from HoC, what about MPs based hundreds of miles away from London? It’s really important that women are able to work and represent others, HoC is a unique workplace and MP a unique job. Not all babies are neatly planned and it’s so important that women are able to have babies and fully participate. Babies in HoC might not be ideal, but while no other solution exists it’s really important to have that flexibility.

wonderstuff · 30/06/2022 11:01

ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave · 30/06/2022 10:56

This leaves mothers with children under 3 months old unable to represent their constituency

Utter nonsense.

Sorry why nonsense, what is the solution?

RichardOsmansXraySpecs · 30/06/2022 11:02

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/06/2022 10:30

We can't have women bringing their small babies into the chamber. It might put male MPs off perving, sexually intimidating and sexually assaulting them.

🙄

Phrenologistsfinger · 30/06/2022 11:03

It makes sense to me. I have spent time there myself and it is a place of work, debates of national significance and no place for babies. YABU.

if they need maternity leave, that’s a separate issue.

TalesOfDrunkennessAndCruelty · 30/06/2022 11:04

MPs can take six months’ maternity leave on full pay and can apply to the Speaker for a proxy to vote in their behalf: details here.

wonderstuff · 30/06/2022 11:06

Phrenologistsfinger · 30/06/2022 11:03

It makes sense to me. I have spent time there myself and it is a place of work, debates of national significance and no place for babies. YABU.

if they need maternity leave, that’s a separate issue.

But they don’t have maternity leave. There are informal arrangements around voting but I believe in the past agreements have been broken? Seems like no suitable alternatives exist at the moment. Until they do this seems discriminatory.

Discovereads · 30/06/2022 11:06

This website says they get 6 months leave on full pay with a proxy to sit in and vote for their constituency. They can also ask the PM for additional maternity leave.
didlaw.com/parliament-and-maternity-rights-mp-maternity-leave

viques · 30/06/2022 11:12

Seymour5 · 30/06/2022 10:00

Perhaps one option might be the babies’ fathers could look after them whilst mum is at work? Most career women think at their childcare options before deciding to become mothers.

Oh, get you with your sensible, reasonable suggestions! Maybe a combination of the on site nursery and daddy care would solve much of the dilemma that better than averagely paid female MPs face .

And I do support women in the workplace whether they have children or not, but my sympathies lie more with the single parents on a low wage struggling on the bus to get to nursery at 7.30 in the morning because they are determined not to be reliant on benefits.

wonderstuff · 30/06/2022 11:14

I didn’t realise proxy voting had been introduced for maternity leave. I stand corrected, I thought it was still paired voting.
That does change it somewhat. I still that the HoC hours should be restricted to the same as the on-site nursery. But babies in the chamber seems less draconian if there’s a genuine alternative, which it looks like there now is.

Spohn · 30/06/2022 11:14

There’s a range of options for a woman who chose to be an MP and chose to have a kid
-use the crèche
-pay for childcare if the crèche is closed
-the father can parent the child

So, no issue.

Awakened22 · 30/06/2022 11:16

twitter.com/aliciakearns/status/1476065646706405378?s=21&t=bxUbyGsGn2AMq7pjidl8Bw

Alicia Kearns wrote a great thread on this based on her experience as an MP with a baby.

Lowcarbfest · 30/06/2022 11:18

Maternity leave for MP's should be an option. As it isn't, I can see why MP's take their babies in with them, but I can also see the problems. Babies don't sleep all the time, they do a lot of crying as well.

Replacethis · 30/06/2022 11:25

I don't think anybody should bring their baby to work.

MangyInseam · 30/06/2022 11:44

I don't think being an MP is quite like other jobs. I have four kids, and I would have stepped down as an MP if I had found myself pregnant, because it would have compromised my ability to represent my constituents. Now for some women the father might be able to totally take on the primary care-giving role which could also work though it would not have been my preference with my own kids.

But I would not have been the main caregiver, and certainly I would not have taken a maternity leave if such a thing were possible. Sometimes we have to decide which thing we are going to do at a particular time.

Dinoteeth · 30/06/2022 11:44

If that's correct they are allowed Mat leave they are doing women a disservice by not making use of at least some of it.

Mat Leave is some of our oldest employment law, factory workers aren't allowed to return to work within 4 weeks of birth and that dates from something like 1830.

MPs trying to show off 'look how easy it is' really isn't fair on the rest of us and puts additional pressure onto other women. "Hey look she's at work with her baby, why can't you?"

WomenShouldWinWomensSports · 30/06/2022 11:49

I feel like the fundamental issue here is the notion that taking a newborn baby to work is "inappropriate". Unless the job involves hygiene or health and safety issues, there is no reason why a woman shouldn't be able to take her breastfed baby to work with her. It's a cultural construct borne of an outdated patriarchal society with unnecessary formalities that don't empower us. She's sitting on a sofa all day listening to people talk. My only concern would be a flat place for the infant to lie down.

When I started my MSc, one of the lecturers took her baby in. The department has a rep for being very child friendly and other members of staff would have their older children in with them if they were off school with a holidays clash, etc. It wasn't uncommon for kids to be playing Lego or dinosaurs in random places. They weren't allowed in the labs, but that was about it. I remember at my village primary, when one of my teacher's children was off sick, they had to sit in the corner of our classroom with nothing to do. That was inappropriate.

I really don't see the issue with a little baby being with its mother if it's breastfed. Pumping every 2-3 hours for 20-30 mins is more disruptive.

Sometimes childcare can't or won't take a child because they're sick. A lot of places in the UK have differing minimum ages they'll take babies from as it's assumed someone gets parental leave. And differing times they open from and to. And maximum capacity.

If men in the commons had to take their babies to work sometimes, maybe they'd have some empathy and understanding. They're not being more professional, they're in a privileged position where they can just walk away from their child every day knowing "someone else will deal with them", and their reputation remains intact at work.

I am confused though, didn't Luciana Berger get mat leave a few years ago?

saraclara · 30/06/2022 11:50

Awakened22 · 30/06/2022 11:16

twitter.com/aliciakearns/status/1476065646706405378?s=21&t=bxUbyGsGn2AMq7pjidl8Bw

Alicia Kearns wrote a great thread on this based on her experience as an MP with a baby.

That's really interesting, and clarifies a lof of misconceptions on this thread. Thanks

Thelnebriati · 30/06/2022 11:56

Babies aren't banned from the HOC; just the Chamber. Presumably an on site nanny would be paid for by an MP's expenses?

Ihatethenewlook · 30/06/2022 12:00

AnyFucker · 30/06/2022 09:38

Hmm, not sure about this.

It’s a place of work. If I had a baby I couldn’t take it to work. I would have to get childcare or baby’s father would take responsibility

why should mp’s be any different ?

There’s literally bars in the House of Commons where people can get pissed at work. Why shouldn’t a mum bring a baby to work?

ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave · 30/06/2022 12:11

wonderstuff · 30/06/2022 11:01

Sorry why nonsense, what is the solution?

  1. Use the proxy vote they're entitled to
  2. Use the extra pay they get for a staff member to wait outside with the baby
  3. Arrange other childcare
  4. Any of the other billion options women use