Babies barred from house of commons... WTAF

[AdamRyan]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61987339

Unbelievable that MPs who are mums can not take their babies into the HoC and therefore not be able to vote or participate in debates.

MPs don't get maternity leave either.

This seems like its going to be a significant hindrance to getting more female representation and also like we are going backwards in terms of women's participation in public life

No, the theme of the HoC Library briefing is the arrangements for Ministers introduced by the 2021 Act, but the info I was highlighting is taken from the section covering maternity leave and pay for all MPs. See section 1.5 of the full briefing.

MPs don't need maternity leave. They get paid whether they turn up or not. It is their choice whether they come into work or not, their choice whether they use the pairing system so they don't have to vote, their choice whether to use the on site nursery, and their choice to make a political statement by bringing their baby into the Chamber.

'Perhaps if you and I had rocked up and demanded to work with a child strapped to us our daughters would not still be in the situation where being pregnant is the likeliest cause of them losing their jobs and where even when the go back to work they will pay a lifetime penalty for maternity.'

Absolutely ridiculous. It does nothing to improve the rights of women and parents to make some sort of weird 'stand' when there are perfectly reasonable alternatives in place. The MPs used as examples could have used the on site crèche- their babies were old enough. They could have behaved professionally while also campaigning about an issue they believe could be improved. And personally I wouldn't want my MP trying to participate in an important debate while looking after their child. Not fair to the constituents and not fair to the child.

MPs are insulated from far too many of the problems their constituents face already. Why would giving them some hideously bespoke special maternity arrangements and letting them take babies to work be a good idea? I want politicians to understand what working parents have to do.

Hmm. Maybe the "father of the baby" also has a job with meetings etc where a baby would be inappropriate.
Maybe the "father of the baby" is in the home constituency hundreds of miles away looking after their other children.
Maybe the baby is breastfed which the father can't do
Maybe the baby is under 3 months so it's not appropriate for the mother to leave it for days at a time.

True equality is a system that enables women's participation as much as mens. It isn't a system where women are supported to act like men.

I agree its about working practices. Personally I don't see why it's not possible for an MP to delegate parts of their role if they are on maternity leave.

Or the working practices could change to enable women with babies to WFH

Or the male MPs could get over their disgust about breastfeeding and their entrenched bias that babies shouldn't be allowed at work. Very small babies are not disruptive, they just sleep, eat and poo. Its not as if the HoC is a bastion of professional behaviour in any case.

Rules if misogyny #6: 6. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.

True equality is a system that enables women's participation as much as mens**

War
Bin collection
Oil rigs
North Sea fishing
Trades
Fire fighters

Do you want to see more women in these physically demanding and sometimes dangerous jobs? In the name of equality?

Or the male MPs could get over their disgust about breastfeeding and their entrenched bias that babies shouldn't be allowed at work. Very small babies are not disruptive, they just sleep, eat and poo. Its not as if the HoC is a bastion of professional behaviour in any case.

But babies shouldn't be allowed at work.
Babies are VERY disruptive, they're very distracting and are not predictable. They may sleep a lot for the first couple of weeks, but after that they're very much awake when they want to be.

Have you got children because it sounds like you haven't got the first idea about what you're talking about.

Yes, definitely, if they want to be - same way as men get a choice if they want to be in those jobs too. Should help to solve some of the institutional problems in some of those workplaces too so the men may get a better work environment.

They have an on-site crèche that takes babies from birth upwards. I would have given my eye teeth for that facility when I was a new mother.

I don't know what the answer is. But a breastfeeding baby in a sling is surely quite different from a bigger baby. It is really not that simple to leave the former in daycare especially if you are working in the evening and it is closed!

MRA klaxon

I think being an mp is a very dangerous job at the moment.

Exactly

Until they have to come out of their sling for a nappy change, clothes change after spewing etc etc etc

Becoming an MP isn’t a role you fall into by mistake, you actively strive and work for the position. Surely those MPs who wish to have children would realise that taking maternity leave during their term in office wouldn’t be possible as it’s a long standing rule?

I want my MP working tirelessly with a strong sense of devotion to their constituents, it’s a role I’m not sure a new parent would want to fully commit to without sacrificing headspace to their child.

So what? You'd presumably just quietly make your excuses for a few moments then return. Anyone who has carried an under three month around in a sling knows that those babies are not particularly disruptive whatsoever. Whereas Jacob Rees Mogg lay down and had a nap in the commons.

Yes, definitely, if they want to be - same way as men get a choice if they want to be in those jobs too. Should help to solve some of the institutional problems in some of those workplaces too so the men may get a better work environment.

Most women don't want to and because men will do those jobs we don't have to.

Of course you can leave your baby when you are breastfeeding! I went back to full time work when my baby was 3 months old, no option to take him to work at all (NHS consultant). I breastfed until he was 2.

It's nothing to do with disgust at breastfeeding. There are clearly some attempts to distract from the actual facts here by trying to whip up emotions which does nothing to support women and further the cause of equality.

Let's stick to the facts:

The MPs in question has children 3 months or above
They have an on site crèche with extensive opening hours which will take children this age
They have far greater flexibility than most to pop in and out of the crèche if they wish to feed/ see their child during the day. They don't have 'set hours' in the way many workers do
There are options open to them as has been discussed extensively on this thread, eg proxy voting
Their basic salary is over £84000. That doesn't include expenses for things like employing staff. They have the financial capacity to employ a nanny if they don't wish to use the on-site crèche or wish to be in the chamber before their child is 3 months old (leaving if they want to feed/see their child)

Whoever said young babies don't cause any disruption seems to have very little experience of children. Babies can be disruptive from any age, they can be unsettled, colicky, they cry sometimes for no apparent reason. It's just crazy to pretend that someone can do their job properly while caring for a baby. I'd say exactly the same if a male MP rocked up in the chamber with his baby strapped to his chest.
This whole issue has done nothing to support women in being seen as professionals

@Neverendingdust Are you saying any woman potentially wanting to have a baby should do the right thing and not go into politics until they are at least 45?

I'd quite like my MP to also understand the struggles of working parents. Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris hardly would, would they?

I don't agree that babies should be in the chamber. There are many workplaces where it is not appropriate to have babies and that is one of them. My own workplace is another, no option to have a baby or child there. The argument should be for better childcare facilities for MPs of both sexes, not for taking children into an inappropriate workplace.

Are they not on short contracts though due to the nature of the job? Why would they have maternity leave so? If I get a few year’s contract in a job they’re not going tomorrow pay maternity for me surely? And I agree with them not allowing babies in, they should be in childcare or at home

Same as caring jobs are predominantly women, doesn't mean space shouldn't be actively made for anyone from the opposite sex that wants those jobs. Men aren't forced to be the majority in those jobs, if men ever didn't want to do those jobs then market forces would entice physically capable women, ie the pay/benefits would have to go up significantly.

Whoever said young babies don't cause any disruption seems to have very little experience of children

I think that was me, and I actually said young babies in a sling don't cause a lot of disruption. I had a disruptive colicky one when she wasn't in it, yes.

But yes, I agree the real issue seems to be the hours of the nursery which are incompatible with evening work. This puts women off the role, so I personally don't blame those MPs for making a political point.

In the NHS I got 12 weeks of paid maternity leave Then I had to go back to work, childcare had to be factored into my (financial and family) calculations when I decided to have a baby.

And my job did involve evening/ night work at times (on call rota). That too had to be factored in. (No creche option for me either).