Men who pay for sex workers

[Anon778833]

Is it ever a one off? I think not. Whenever men I know describe having paid a sex worker, they make it sound like these women just fell on top of them and they didn’t enjoy it which clearly is treating the listener like a fool. In reality it takes a great deal of premeditation to do something like this.

I would say that it’s something that if someone chooses to do once, they will do again.

So you don't think it is OK?

There's no issue then.

So you don't think it is OK?

I have nothing to say on that question.

You said you couldn't fathom how someone could have sex with someone who didn't find them attractive. All I wanted to add is that for a not-insignificant minority of men, well, there isn't anyone who finds them attractive.

I think there are quite a few different kinds of scenarios. I'm sure there are one-off situations where people visit a prostitute under pressure, drinking, when quite young, or just imagining it will be different, and then don't repeat the experience.

As for how they conceptualize the experience, I would not underestimate the extent to which people can really believe things that seem emotionally implausible or incoherent to you. For example that selling sex is just like selling your labour in other ways and that it involves a fair trade.

And our society treats sex as a commodity in a lot of ways, advertising, the media. And then we have things like hook up apps where people treat sex as a reasonable casual activity between strangers. An exchange of money for sex does not seem like such a leap from there.

I'd also say, in places where many people are involved in degrading and dangerous work, and life is precarious, the dangers and requirements of prostitution don't seem so different.

It isn't true that all escorts are having non consensual sex. There are many independent escorts who do that line of work of their own free will.

I have a close friend who does this for a living and has done very well for herself.

There are some clients who will only visit an escort once and never again.

This friend has told me that she doesn't need therapy either nor do many others.

Some men will get addicted to seeing escorts but it isn't all of them.

[quote ringlightisnotflattering]@MondaysChild7 With the way things are going with the cost of living, and after over a decade of austerity policies, and the way disabled people who cannot work, are treated .. the effects of which are weighted heavily on women ..

Then some of us are glad for that 40/50 quid for half an hour so we can pay the bills.

We don't want 'policies' to 'save us from ourselves' - They just put us in more danger whilst you ignore the fact we are telling you this.

We want actual choices. A functioning welfare system. You are so blind to the causes and the poverty that keeps us here.

Give up your lifestyles (even modest lifestyles) and go try live on benefits. Add a disability or two and try to get by. See how quickly prostitution enters your mind to alleviate the endless struggle of trying to make ends meet.

Think of what causes women to enter and stay in the industry and not the fucking punters for once.

(disabled ex sex worker. left 7 years ago. government policies plus cost of living forcing me close to the line of going back)[/quote]
The going rate is now £80 minimum for half an hour. Even £100. Those who still charge £50 are rare and are those who are either trafficked pimped coerced really ugly or an ethnic minority who has little or no confidence in their ability to earn decent money.

Some clients even prefer disabled escorts so I have been told as it a unique selling point. Disability no way precludes women from entering the profession and preventing poverty.

I have learned so much from this close friend it has really opened my eyes!

@MondaysChild7

I also think it says a lot that someone would do this, knowing the sex worker doesn’t really want to be there with them.

My friend is an escort, she is very happy with her life choices. For her the money is what motivates her. She sees it as a job and would never sleep with anyone she didn't want to. A lot of her clients are regulars. She does have the occasional client who only attends once.

Funny how many people there are with one happy escort friend.

I've known tens of sex workers. Rent boys, magazine work, dominatrix, street sex work... 'Doesn't need therapy' hasn't been my experience. 'Died of a drug overdose' has been.

The vast majority of those I've worked with or been friends with had an abusive childhood and then MH or addiction issues. Then sex work. Pretending it's all consensual and happy is at best naïve.

You misunderstand. There are people who are so ugly, they can't have a relationship with any women.

I'm sorry but very very few people are ugly on the outside. Stop making excuses.

It isn't true that all escorts are having non consensual sex. There are many independent escorts who do that line of work of their own free will.

It is unwanted sex by definition or they wouldn't have to be compensated financially for it. If you really want to have sex with someone, the last thing you're going to do is put an obstacle in the way, like making them pay for it. If I offer you something you want, like a chocolate bar, say, you're not going to say "you have to pay me to do this pleasurable thing that I really want to do."

So the sex is unwanted, it's just the money that is wanted because it is needed to survive. Doing something you don't want to do in order to survive is the definition of coercion. If someone says to you, "give me a blowjob or I'll kill you," and you agree, that does not constitute consensual sex. So why do you call it consensual if the threat is "give me a blowjob or you and your children won't have money for food?"

I'm sorry but very very few people are ugly on the outside.

Very very few women are ugly, but certainly the majority of men are ugly. And from overhearing conversations between women, they would seem to be in agreement with me that most men are ugly.

@greasyshoes

I'm sorry but very very few people are ugly on the outside.

Very very few women are ugly, but certainly the majority of men are ugly. And from overhearing conversations between women, they would seem to be in agreement with me that most men are ugly.

This is a very odd thing to say

This is a very odd thing to say

It really is. And it says many interesting things, all at the same time.

This is a very odd thing to say

What's more odd is that you have no answer. There is indeed evidence for what I am saying. Wasn't there that data that was circulated online which showed that women rated the majority of men on dating apps as being below-average in appearance? If women don't think most men are ugly, how can that be possible?

the majority of men are ugly.

Really?

@Lightning020 I am (kind of) agreeing with you!! You may have a friend who's a sex worker, but I WAS a sex worker for over a decade.

I agree with you re the prices being higher. I didn't do a full service for disability reasons and so I charged a bit less.

I still maintain that sex work is infinitely a better choice than poverty. Benefits should be enough to live on, and there should be no zero hours contracts, sanctions etc. But this is not reality - despite what many on MN would like to think . That's my point. I'd rather do sex work any day and be able to pay my bills and maybe have some kind of extremely modest life, rather than sit unable to both heat and eat on benefits as is what happens to some.

We don't want your Nordic Model laws. They make working (which we will do regardless) less safe for us. Those who advocate for this do not care nor listen to actual sex workers, just dogma. Leave us alone. If you care so much, campaign for better welfare rights, housing etc.

@greasyshoes

This is a very odd thing to say

What's more odd is that you have no answer. There is indeed evidence for what I am saying. Wasn't there that data that was circulated online which showed that women rated the majority of men on dating apps as being below-average in appearance? If women don't think most men are ugly, how can that be possible?

Most men aren't on dating apps, and most women didn't answer that particular survey? You know there is a real world, away from the computer screen, right?

You know there is a real world, away from the computer screen, right?

Well as I said, I've heard plenty of conversations between women in real life. Women clearly find some men attractive, but all the evidence I have heard would indicate that women find most men ugly.

all the evidence I have heard would indicate that women find most men ugly

All the evidence from... being a human person, has led me to believe that most people find most other people unattractive to them. 90% are probably too old or young or the 'wrong' sex to start with. That isn't to say we find 90% of other people ugly. Just not sexually attractive at this stage of our life. Then you can have a type. I know Brad Pitt is objectively handsome. Does nothing for me. So what does that leave? Maybe 1% of the population of the world who are attractive at any point to any one person.

However even if someone is ugly on the surface, and unattractive to everyone, that doesn't excuse the internal ugliness of swerving consent because you want a shag. It almost makes it worse because you can't even kid yourself that it's consensual. There's no denial at that point.

Hear hear mrstp

No one has the right to have sex with another person.
Consent cannot be bought.

All the evidence from... being a human person, has led me to believe that most people find most other people unattractive to them. 90% are probably too old or young or the 'wrong' sex to start with. That isn't to say we find 90% of other people ugly.

This is a textbook example of being obtuse. Yes, of course people are generally only attracted to one of the sexes (unless they are in the minority of bisexual people), but I thought that didn't need to be explicitly spelled out.

Everything else just proves my point that women are only attracted to a small proportion of men. So how can you say you don't agree that most men are ugly?

Excellent avoidance of the question of consent.

Which is the actual point.

Most men are ugly? Hmm I can smell a bridge dweller.

Women are attracted to fewer men because that’s how biology works. It’s not because women are generally better looking. Most people are average looking across the board.

I have noticed for a very long time ie over 20 years that men are considerably uglier than women. In general.

Women tend to do more personal grooming whereas at best men will just shave or go to the barbers. In addition their self care is way worse than women's ability to look after their dietary dental and health needs. Men certainly go to pot much quicker than women and those who choose to do sexwork have to put up with all of this. Personally I respect all women who have done sexwork.