300 babies lost due to fixation on natural birth

[MoltenLasagne]

The final Ockden report into failings at Shrewsbury Trust are in tomorrow's Times. Dreadful reading, and the stories of being ignored by midwives and doctors are sadly very familiar to many.

Those poor families who suffered due to these policies and then had to fight against cover ups to get justice. It is a national shame.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/95c4dfc6-ad13-11ec-9f8f-48b5aba04080?shareToken=cee7e35a29b97e868e46576145630ae6

[EllieQ]

A shocking story

[purplesequins]

absolutely awful but sadly not surprising.

those poor babies and their families.

[RandomMess]

[SushiGo]

It's awful.

Maternity services are often severely underfunded which I am sure drove hospital trusts attitudes (vaginal births are cheaper).

The whole system needs a massive shake up - to prevent these devastating and needless deaths, but also to treat women giving birth as worth listening to. Genuine access to painkillers etc.

Thoughts with the families today.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

This is horrific..if you 10 patients in a.row who need a c section then you have 10 patients in a row who need c sections.

You cant just refuse someone treatment because it makes the hospital look.bad.

If the rate of medicalisation is worrying then look at the factors around it. Don't just try and bring your stats down by risking the lives of women and their babies

Thise poor families

[Isobelslider]

@SushiGo

It's awful.

Maternity services are often severely underfunded which I am sure drove hospital trusts attitudes (vaginal births are cheaper).

The whole system needs a massive shake up - to prevent these devastating and needless deaths, but also to treat women giving birth as worth listening to. Genuine access to painkillers etc.

Thoughts with the families today.

This is exactly what I think.

Isn't funny that we are currently seeing a big push for home births, natural births and minimal intervention at a time when the NHS is struggling to cope financially?

It's never been about what's best for mothers or children. It's only ever been about money.

[ZoeQ90]

Home births are far more difficult for the NHS. It means have midwives on call at all times and two midwives on the scene as soon as possible, unable to help any other women as they could at a hospital. So whatever else is going on, a push for home births is not motivated by cost and ease for the NHS

[Bdhntbis]

I’ve always wondered how much of this is a money thing. It’s shocking how NCT have played into this and push the idea of a natural birth with no intervention without being honest about the reality and the statistics. It’s then played onto everyone’s attitudes; when I told people I was having an elective c section with my second baby based on medical advice everyone was sympathetic and assumed I’d be sad….not so at all.
Womens services are hugely underfunded and people just don’t see it because men are making these decisions

[Whatwouldscullydo]

I had a home birth with dd1. Everyone thought I was mad. But I felt really safe tbh. A midwife. 2 in fact amd a student. There just for me. Talking to me treating me like a person. And my now xp was with me the whole time.

I had no choice with dd2 I had to have her in hospital. The same family who thought I was mad to have dd1 at home now say they wish I'd had her at home.

And so do I. Alot of things happened around the birth that I have questions about and I believe to this day there would have been a better outcome in the weeks after if I had stayed home. Theres alot I hold the hospital responsible for. They may have saved her life but I believe it was them that made her sick in the first place.

You are nothing but a print out in hospital. That is the first thing that needs to change. Seenthe women as actual people amd not a collection of occurences on a monotor screen. And that was 11 years ago befire covid excuses amd even more funding excuses.

[Papayamya]

@Whatwouldscullydo

This is horrific..if you 10 patients in a.row who need a c section then you have 10 patients in a row who need c sections.

You cant just refuse someone treatment because it makes the hospital look.bad.

If the rate of medicalisation is worrying then look at the factors around it. Don't just try and bring your stats down by risking the lives of women and their babies

Thise poor families

I agree if it's just for statistics and to make targets, but sadly there just isn't the staffing or resources to deliver even a minimum level of care in most circumstances. If 10 women presented at the same time needing or wanting C sections and there was a time restraint ie needed to be within x hours the threshold for who got one would be raised as most couldn't facilitate this; those who then were refused would be at risk but illegally performing one with untrained staff and without the necessary equipment would obviously be a bigger risk. Maternity services have been a shit show for many years, of course reports like this as still absolutely shocking and heartbreaking nonetheless. As we face an unprecedented shortage of midwives with more leaving every day be interesting how they address these unacceptable factors that all contributed to these horrific outcomes. I certainly am not having any more children and being at the mercy of the NHS, its scary.

[Papayamya]

@Whatwouldscullydo

I had a home birth with dd1. Everyone thought I was mad. But I felt really safe tbh. A midwife. 2 in fact amd a student. There just for me. Talking to me treating me like a person. And my now xp was with me the whole time.

I had no choice with dd2 I had to have her in hospital. The same family who thought I was mad to have dd1 at home now say they wish I'd had her at home.

And so do I. Alot of things happened around the birth that I have questions about and I believe to this day there would have been a better outcome in the weeks after if I had stayed home. Theres alot I hold the hospital responsible for. They may have saved her life but I believe it was them that made her sick in the first place.

You are nothing but a print out in hospital. That is the first thing that needs to change. Seenthe women as actual people amd not a collection of occurences on a monotor screen. And that was 11 years ago befire covid excuses amd even more funding excuses.

The home birthing service is often suspended as there aren't enough staff. In a hospital environment they're often working with unsafe women to midwife ratios but as they're in the same place geographically they can run between which obviously isn't possible at home births. It's criminal really, I know several midwives as I lived with them at uni and they all absolutely love and are huge advocates for home births, but don't often get to do them and their hearts break for the women in their care.

[alrightfella]

This makes me feel sick, my birth was dc1 was horrific as they were so set on a natural birth. Totally the wrong decision I could have lost her.

[SushiGo]

I agree that we need far, far more midwives and other specialist staff.

I do feel that's funding related. Why don't we as a culture throw more money into ensuring women can give birth safely?

I had one hospital birth. They were busy so I was left in a room alone and completely ignored until I was 10cms, by which point it was obviously too late for painkillers etc.

Hospital birth felt unsafe, so I then had 2x home births. The second of which was a busy night, local hospital units all closed to admissions, home birth team had to turn around and get no break to see me.

So much of both of those experiences was funding related. And I appreciate that we were very lucky and everything was fine.

But it's wrong.

[SolasAnla]

Poor parents🌻

Its a reflection on how poor culture develops when harm is an acceptable price for a sucess story. Medical errors are bound to happen. It must be terrible to have to try to accept this if its your baby, but factually true. The reason its necessary to say that an error happened is to see if it is preventable.
Its cold comforts to the women and families who brought it to light that they helped prevent other famalies going through the same pain.

[Harlequin1088]

I’m currently 37 weeks pregnant with my first and come under this particular NHS Trust. Reading this report made me feel sick.

I’m waiting to see when improvements will actually be made as thus far everything has been excused with “because of covid” but based on this report the problems have been there decades before the pandemic….

For example, despite them spouting about their commitment to continuity of care, I’ve only seen my named midwife 3 times in my entire 37 weeks of pregnancy. The rest of my appointments have been with random midwives who happened to be available on the day and I’ve never seen any of them again since. It’s exhausting having to explain everything to different people all the time because none of them bother to read your notes before they see you so defeats the point of anyone taking notes to be honest.

I had some contraction-like pain last night and spent nearly an hour trying to get through to triage. When I did get through, I explained to the midwife who answered that I have an elective C-section booked for two weeks’ time and had been advised that they’d bring it forward if I went into labour early. She scoffed and asked if I wasn’t even going to try and have a ‘normal’ birth. I bluntly said no as that’s not what I wanted and not what had been agreed with my consultant. In the end, the pain subsided and I didn’t have to go down to hospital but I’m now dreading the thought of going into labour in the next two weeks just in case they seize the opportunity to railroad me into a vaginal birth I don’t want just to try and save the Trust a few quid.

It’s made me even more anxious than I need to be right now, if I’m honest.

[Notbluepeter]

All those families. All that suffering. It is a disgrace.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

The definition of success is what's wrong sola

I'm sure most would view a well managed birth with caring and attentive staff that ended in c section and with a healthy mother and baby at the end if it a success still. I mean the staff would surely have done what they were meant to do. Looked after the patient, spotted things weren't progressing or that something was wrong and acted. What wouldn't be deemed successful in that scenario?

I'd certainly not view a long drawn out over medicated birth a success purely on the basis it didn't result in surgery.

[Whatelsecouldibecalled]

This is absolutely horrendous

[EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]

Shaun Lintern has persevered with this for years, never wavering.

I agree that we need far, far more midwives and other specialist staff.

I don't know what Health Education England has not been stronger on ensuring that there are sufficient qualified staff.

[LunaticFringe]

My dd2 was stillborn following a huge placental abruption. This wasn't in Shropshire so not covered by the review.
The only 'investigation' that we were party to was the consultant looking at the pathology of the placenta and declaring the cause to be idiopathic I.e. unknown.
From reading and talking to emergency nurses I believed I had identified the cause and this was reinforced when a different consultant ordered a specific blood test at our first appointment which was very abnormal. A blood test that could and probably should have been done in my pregnancy with dd2 when I saw the consultant with symptoms that pointed towards it.
A major incident review was done by the hospital because I very nearly died too. We were not told, not involved and have never seen it. Apparently the paramedic was blamed for not getting me to the hospital quickly enough. This, in my opinion, is nonsense and the paramedic kept me alive. I was dying when he got to me. I was alive and conscious when I got to hospital.
There were some wonderful midwives involved in my care. There seemed to be no accountability at consultant level.

[MoltenLasagne]

I am so so sorry LunaticFringe

I cannot imagine what you must have gone through and then to have the hospital treat you so badly on top as well.

[jlpartnerrs]

There's a lot of mums left scarred by their treatment in labor (I'm one) and it's down to the underfunding and downgrading of women's medicines. If you really want to get angry you should read the chapter on health care in invisible women.

I am so very angry that trust's are able to cover up negligence of this scale. There must be more that patients and parents should be able to do to report and collate and flag these things.

In addition the maternal and infants deaths confidential inquiries, surely they would have seen this? If not then it's not fit for purpose.

Finally those poor mothers fathers and babies. Chilling.

[3cats4poniesandababy]

I haven't read the full report due to have PTSD from an NHS birth.

From what I have read and my own experience it is less about the 'push for natural births' and more to do with shocking staffing. My own experience (and child needing NICU) was due to staff refusing to believe I was in active labour as I was a 'first time mum so the textbooks says she won't give birth till tomorrow'. From my own experience (both burth and care for my son in his first year of life) most NHS staff need to have there ears cleaned out, and to start listening to patients and while at it burn the textbook as patients are people not textbooks.

[HelenWick]

@alrightfella

This makes me feel sick, my birth was dc1 was horrific as they were so set on a natural birth. Totally the wrong decision I could have lost her.

Same for me. DM, who is not very supportive most of the time arrived at the hospital after 28 hours of labour and went BERSERK - at the time I as ashamed and horrified and now I am so desperately grateful. Her and DH demanded a caesarian and they were forced into it. When I was first pregnant with DD 2 years later I received a humble apology from the female consultant who admitted that I was treated absolutely appallingly for cost cutting purposes. God knows where I'd be now if DM hadn't been there.

[SpringLobelia]

I have found this all both horrifying and in some way validating. I am not in that particular trust. But when DS1 was born 12 years ago I requested a c-section because I had had an accident in my teens that among other things resulted in a smashed pelvis which was never reset properly. I limp to this day. My consultant at the time of the accident warned me never to attempt to give birth naturally. I told this everyone when I was pg and was told 'we'll start you off as a natural and see how far you get'.

well. from my waters breaking (and immediate contractions) to birth I was in labour for 26 hours. DS1 was born by ventouse and I had a massive pph. he was completely black when he came out and the cord was around his neck. He had to be rescuscitated.

When my discharge notes were given to me they stated I had been in labour for 10 hours only.

He has ASD, ADHD, Tourettes and is 'cognitively well below average' according to his most recent assessment. I believe very strongly that we were completely failed and he was failed. I believe completely that if I had been listened to things would be very different.