300 babies lost due to fixation on natural birth

[MoltenLasagne]

The final Ockden report into failings at Shrewsbury Trust are in tomorrow's Times. Dreadful reading, and the stories of being ignored by midwives and doctors are sadly very familiar to many.

Those poor families who suffered due to these policies and then had to fight against cover ups to get justice. It is a national shame.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/95c4dfc6-ad13-11ec-9f8f-48b5aba04080?shareToken=cee7e35a29b97e868e46576145630ae6

[Cameliah]

At 41 weeks pregnant with an enormous bump, I suffered through a 24 hour labour before the midwives agreed I needed medical intervention and transferred me to a ward to see a consultant. The consultant was horrified and said my stomach was huge, the baby was massive and there was no way I could have given birth naturally without serious injury to myself and the baby. She said wtf were the midwives thinking?! She arranged a c section immediately and she said she wished she’d seen me sooner because a baby that big should have been induced about 37 weeks - a whole month earlier!

While I was waiting for my c section, the midwives who were monitoring me still kept saying things like “Are you sure you don’t want to try for a natural birth? You can still change your mind about the c section?” Even though they had literally just heard the consultant saying “god you’re huge, attempting a natural birth would have killed you and your baby”. My husband had to ask the midwives to stop saying those things because it was distressing me.

So yes, there is an obsession with natural birth at all expenses and it’s dangerous and costs lives.

[Villagewaspbyke]

Also lack of respect and lack of willingness to listen to women

[Villagewaspbyke]

I don’t think it’s just money. I think it’s dogma and poor management

[ikeairgin]

I've been thinking deeply about this issue for a long time.

Can I first say that it's appalling and a tragedy and a disgrace that it took mothers, not the inspection bodies to pick this up and my heart goes out to all those mothers, partners and families affected by this.

Clearly, the issue isn't one type of birth prioritised over another per sae. We are mammals. We birth well when we feel safe. So many interventions and practices around birth are to ensure that the health care professionals feel safe in their practice, not that the mother and partner feel safe and listened to. Birth is not safe for some women, however, that's a fact.

We have a sense called Interoception, it is a lesser-known sense that helps you understand and feel what's going on inside your body. Mothers when birthing often know when things are going wrong- because of this.

What it actually boils down to is a refusal to listen to women and practice woman-centred-care. Woman centred care is staff intensive but it does lead to better outcomes for birthing women. There are studies that clearly show this but it is expensive. There was a midwife home birth team in London called the Albany Practice who were experienced practitioners in woman centred care and they smashed the intervention rates and they had better outcomes for their women who were generally from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, so a double whammy in results. They were closed down because it was felt that the women in their care got a better service (and we must ensure a shit service for every woman, we can't have some getting a gold standard of care and showing up the hospital practices) and that the cost of providing this care where the women (98% of them) were delivered by their named midwife (it was a case-loading style of service provision) was felt to be too much.

Instead we load on the cost of poor care off into the future. I have a child with a SpLD which may or may not have been caused by hypoxic-ischaemic encephalopathy (HIE) at birth - we will never know. Add in the repercussions of my trauma and the cost of treating my poor mental health and there you are - actual avoidable cost.

I put that in not to bang on about my own trauma - which incidentally pales into insignificance compared to what some of these families have suffered but just to say I do have/had skin in the game.

I sat on a maternity services liaison committee (as it was known back in the day) because I was passionate about woman centred care. I found to my horror that the NHS is as institutionalised as any other large public body. It has been designed to work for the staff and not for the patients. There is bullying and intimidation at all levels. It really is like turning a large ship to get things changed I found. This was 18 years ago, but I see that not much has changed in the interim.

It's about time we demanded one midwife for one woman. And the same team throughout. Anyone remember domino care? That was where your community midwifery team / hopefully your named midwife came out to you in early labour, assessed you and went with you to hospital to deliver your baby. All gone. There's a national shortage or midwives, and those that enter burn out pretty quickly due to the unsafe working conditions, there literally aren't enough midwives on the wards.

We must make noise and demand change. This second rate and under-staffed and under-funded model cannot continue. We owe it to these women and babies to demand better. Birth is a risky business but research shows what makes it safer and that IS woman centred, compassionate care. That means listening to women, and acting on their concerns.

[UsernameNotAvailableHmm]

So sad to hear
Thoughts and prayers for all involved in this horrific scandal

[Terfeywithallthetrimmings]

It makes me absolutely mad reading this. Do we imagine for a moment if men had to go through a similar kind of trauma to labour they would be forced into doing it "naturally" and at risk to themselves. My children are both grown up but both hospital births were traumatic. In both cases, i was denied pain relief for hours and verbally dismissed and belittled for wanting it. First time, I was eventually given an epidural which was bodged and resulted in a dural tap. Not nice. Second time, they failed to get all the placenta out and it came out later when I was on the (very crowded) ward. Somehow I was to blame! Women are still being treated like dirt and put at risk when at their most vulnerable. It has got to stop.

[BigGreen]

JFC I felt ill reading the scale of this and the victim-blaming. Can't we protest or something? This makes me want to just show my upset and outrage on the streets.

[ForTheLoveOfSleep]

My younger sister very nearly died due to regulations such as these. Her first child was over 9lbs and she was begging for a c-section but they kept making her push. She managed it but burst an artery in the process and was immediately rushed away for surgery and several blood transfusions. My mum was with her and she vividly remembers the midwives faces going ghost white once they realised what happened.

[givethatbabyaname]

I’m so sorry for all the women, and all the children who have suffered because of poor healthcare.

I’ve never, ever understood the push for “natural” versus “medicalised” childbirth. Vaginal birthing is fraught with risks for mother and for baby. What is modern medicine for if not to improve our chances? The recent trend towards brainwashing women into believing drugs damage, that intervention is fraught with risks and should be avoided, breastfeeding is the best option etc is horribly, criminally cynical and self-serving. Getting at pregnant women when most aren’t medically qualified enough to know best for themselves, tugging on their Achilles heel - it’s Machiavellian, evil. Almost entirely unrelated to the best possible outcomes for mother and baby, almost entirely to do with the management of funds in a public healthcare setting and a baseline disregard for women’s health. Geriatric care and medicine is even worse. I can’t bear to think what is going unreported in that field.

NHS healthcare can be amazing, truly world-class. It can also be shockingly life-damaging or, as we can see, fatal.

[SpringLobelia]

When I say I find this validating in some way- it is because for years when I have said that I felt something had gone horribly wrong with his birth I have been fobbed off at every turn. The 10 hours in labour really pisses me off. I was in labour in the hospital from 8 am in the morning (the only time they would allow me to come in when I rang them at 11 pm the night before to say my waters had broken and I was having such severe contractions I was passing out) and the child was born 1 am the following morning from going to hospital so even the being in hospital time alone was far in excess of the claimed 10 hours.

[SpringLobelia]

I have found this all both horrifying and in some way validating. I am not in that particular trust. But when DS1 was born 12 years ago I requested a c-section because I had had an accident in my teens that among other things resulted in a smashed pelvis which was never reset properly. I limp to this day. My consultant at the time of the accident warned me never to attempt to give birth naturally. I told this everyone when I was pg and was told 'we'll start you off as a natural and see how far you get'.

well. from my waters breaking (and immediate contractions) to birth I was in labour for 26 hours. DS1 was born by ventouse and I had a massive pph. he was completely black when he came out and the cord was around his neck. He had to be rescuscitated.

When my discharge notes were given to me they stated I had been in labour for 10 hours only.

He has ASD, ADHD, Tourettes and is 'cognitively well below average' according to his most recent assessment. I believe very strongly that we were completely failed and he was failed. I believe completely that if I had been listened to things would be very different.

[HelenWick]

@alrightfella

This makes me feel sick, my birth was dc1 was horrific as they were so set on a natural birth. Totally the wrong decision I could have lost her.

Same for me. DM, who is not very supportive most of the time arrived at the hospital after 28 hours of labour and went BERSERK - at the time I as ashamed and horrified and now I am so desperately grateful. Her and DH demanded a caesarian and they were forced into it. When I was first pregnant with DD 2 years later I received a humble apology from the female consultant who admitted that I was treated absolutely appallingly for cost cutting purposes. God knows where I'd be now if DM hadn't been there.

[3cats4poniesandababy]

I haven't read the full report due to have PTSD from an NHS birth.

From what I have read and my own experience it is less about the 'push for natural births' and more to do with shocking staffing. My own experience (and child needing NICU) was due to staff refusing to believe I was in active labour as I was a 'first time mum so the textbooks says she won't give birth till tomorrow'. From my own experience (both burth and care for my son in his first year of life) most NHS staff need to have there ears cleaned out, and to start listening to patients and while at it burn the textbook as patients are people not textbooks.

[jlpartnerrs]

There's a lot of mums left scarred by their treatment in labor (I'm one) and it's down to the underfunding and downgrading of women's medicines. If you really want to get angry you should read the chapter on health care in invisible women.

I am so very angry that trust's are able to cover up negligence of this scale. There must be more that patients and parents should be able to do to report and collate and flag these things.

In addition the maternal and infants deaths confidential inquiries, surely they would have seen this? If not then it's not fit for purpose.

Finally those poor mothers fathers and babies. Chilling.

[MoltenLasagne]

I am so so sorry LunaticFringe

I cannot imagine what you must have gone through and then to have the hospital treat you so badly on top as well.

[LunaticFringe]

My dd2 was stillborn following a huge placental abruption. This wasn't in Shropshire so not covered by the review.
The only 'investigation' that we were party to was the consultant looking at the pathology of the placenta and declaring the cause to be idiopathic I.e. unknown.
From reading and talking to emergency nurses I believed I had identified the cause and this was reinforced when a different consultant ordered a specific blood test at our first appointment which was very abnormal. A blood test that could and probably should have been done in my pregnancy with dd2 when I saw the consultant with symptoms that pointed towards it.
A major incident review was done by the hospital because I very nearly died too. We were not told, not involved and have never seen it. Apparently the paramedic was blamed for not getting me to the hospital quickly enough. This, in my opinion, is nonsense and the paramedic kept me alive. I was dying when he got to me. I was alive and conscious when I got to hospital.
There were some wonderful midwives involved in my care. There seemed to be no accountability at consultant level.

[EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]

Shaun Lintern has persevered with this for years, never wavering.

I agree that we need far, far more midwives and other specialist staff.

I don't know what Health Education England has not been stronger on ensuring that there are sufficient qualified staff.

[Whatelsecouldibecalled]

This is absolutely horrendous

[Whatwouldscullydo]

The definition of success is what's wrong sola

I'm sure most would view a well managed birth with caring and attentive staff that ended in c section and with a healthy mother and baby at the end if it a success still. I mean the staff would surely have done what they were meant to do. Looked after the patient, spotted things weren't progressing or that something was wrong and acted. What wouldn't be deemed successful in that scenario?

I'd certainly not view a long drawn out over medicated birth a success purely on the basis it didn't result in surgery.

[Notbluepeter]

All those families. All that suffering. It is a disgrace.

[Harlequin1088]

I’m currently 37 weeks pregnant with my first and come under this particular NHS Trust. Reading this report made me feel sick.

I’m waiting to see when improvements will actually be made as thus far everything has been excused with “because of covid” but based on this report the problems have been there decades before the pandemic….

For example, despite them spouting about their commitment to continuity of care, I’ve only seen my named midwife 3 times in my entire 37 weeks of pregnancy. The rest of my appointments have been with random midwives who happened to be available on the day and I’ve never seen any of them again since. It’s exhausting having to explain everything to different people all the time because none of them bother to read your notes before they see you so defeats the point of anyone taking notes to be honest.

I had some contraction-like pain last night and spent nearly an hour trying to get through to triage. When I did get through, I explained to the midwife who answered that I have an elective C-section booked for two weeks’ time and had been advised that they’d bring it forward if I went into labour early. She scoffed and asked if I wasn’t even going to try and have a ‘normal’ birth. I bluntly said no as that’s not what I wanted and not what had been agreed with my consultant. In the end, the pain subsided and I didn’t have to go down to hospital but I’m now dreading the thought of going into labour in the next two weeks just in case they seize the opportunity to railroad me into a vaginal birth I don’t want just to try and save the Trust a few quid.

It’s made me even more anxious than I need to be right now, if I’m honest.

[SolasAnla]

Poor parents🌻

Its a reflection on how poor culture develops when harm is an acceptable price for a sucess story. Medical errors are bound to happen. It must be terrible to have to try to accept this if its your baby, but factually true. The reason its necessary to say that an error happened is to see if it is preventable.
Its cold comforts to the women and families who brought it to light that they helped prevent other famalies going through the same pain.

[SushiGo]

I agree that we need far, far more midwives and other specialist staff.

I do feel that's funding related. Why don't we as a culture throw more money into ensuring women can give birth safely?

I had one hospital birth. They were busy so I was left in a room alone and completely ignored until I was 10cms, by which point it was obviously too late for painkillers etc.

Hospital birth felt unsafe, so I then had 2x home births. The second of which was a busy night, local hospital units all closed to admissions, home birth team had to turn around and get no break to see me.

So much of both of those experiences was funding related. And I appreciate that we were very lucky and everything was fine.

But it's wrong.

[alrightfella]

This makes me feel sick, my birth was dc1 was horrific as they were so set on a natural birth. Totally the wrong decision I could have lost her.

[Papayamya]

@Whatwouldscullydo

I had a home birth with dd1. Everyone thought I was mad. But I felt really safe tbh. A midwife. 2 in fact amd a student. There just for me. Talking to me treating me like a person. And my now xp was with me the whole time.

I had no choice with dd2 I had to have her in hospital. The same family who thought I was mad to have dd1 at home now say they wish I'd had her at home.

And so do I. Alot of things happened around the birth that I have questions about and I believe to this day there would have been a better outcome in the weeks after if I had stayed home. Theres alot I hold the hospital responsible for. They may have saved her life but I believe it was them that made her sick in the first place.

You are nothing but a print out in hospital. That is the first thing that needs to change. Seenthe women as actual people amd not a collection of occurences on a monotor screen. And that was 11 years ago befire covid excuses amd even more funding excuses.

The home birthing service is often suspended as there aren't enough staff. In a hospital environment they're often working with unsafe women to midwife ratios but as they're in the same place geographically they can run between which obviously isn't possible at home births. It's criminal really, I know several midwives as I lived with them at uni and they all absolutely love and are huge advocates for home births, but don't often get to do them and their hearts break for the women in their care.