Feminism seems to celebrate the masculine and look down upon the feminine

[Lpc3]

This crosses my mind a lot when I see feminist issues discussed. It seems to get on an equal footing with men women are encouraged to act more like men rather than celebrate the fact they're women.

It's as though feminity it looked down upon as second class to masculinity and therefore discouraged.

Does anyone get what I mean? I'm not particularly well read on feminism (plus I'm a man) but I'd love it if someone could flesh this out a bit more (or tell me where I'm misinterpreting a lot of feminist views).

Thanks

There's lots of different strands of feminism.
Most feminist reject masculinity and femininity as constructs, so traits are just traits not tied to either sex.

What do you mean by femininity and masculinity OP?

Do you mean stereotypes?

As per the PP - I don't think masculinity or femininity are real things, just social constructs so I wouldn't hold one above the other.

People are just individuals and have a mix of traits.

If women tend to be, for example, more emotional it's simply because society says it's desirable for a woman to be emotional and the opposite for a man.

I have a real mix of so called 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits.

Act like men in what way? How should women behave? I frequently see both femininity and masculinity described in negative terms.

There's no one type of feminist.

Im not one that frowns upon being feminine. It's freedom of choice. Let people live.

I think your interpreting the fact that women want rights and freedom as masculine traits when in fact they are human traits. Women have been fighting against gender stereotypes for centuries. And face it gender stereotypes are misogynistic and cultural.

The thing is so much of what’s considered “feminine” is intricately woven with weakness, immobility, submissiveness etc so it’s a really hard one to unpick.

Surely that's what Gene Hunt would tell you.

I'm not well read on feminism and I'm a man, but I thought I'd come and list on a feminist board about why I feel feminism is doing things all wrong.

Yes. We advocate trousers so we can't be upskirted by men.

I think if any feminists have tended to focus on 'masculine' traits more it's not because they celebrate them more but because they're fighting stereotypes.

So, for example, I don't feel the need to mention that I love kittens and try to be thoughtful in the context of discussing feminism or men/women because those things are expected of me.

Whereas I may well mention being very logical, not very emotional and a driven, ambitious workaholic - not because it's 'better' but because it's unexpected of me as a woman and that's the sort of silly nonsense feminism (amongst many, many other things) is trying to move away from.

Nellodee

I'm not well read on feminism and I'm a man, but I thought I'd come and list on a feminist board about why I feel feminism is doing things all wrong.

Haha nailed it.

This is quite a big discussion in feminism and always has been. It leads down a lot of paths. What is feminine? What is masculine? Why are particular behaviours and traits described that way? What link is there with being a woman or a man?

Feminism is a way of analysing things that happen in the world. There isn't a dogma, or not only one, anyway. I feel most celebrated as a woman when my preferences are understood to be mine, and that they don't affect the fact that I'm a woman and always will be. I can admire traditional craft skills such as sewing but also note that women as workers, producers and consumers in the clothes trade worldwide are exploited because they are female.

Yes those masculine traits of having boundaries and maintaining them, even when to do so is perceived and announced as unkind. Definitely.

Absolutely. The one that drives me up the wall is how any book/film described as having a “strong female heroine” always has someone ultra-violent and non-maternal, and usually scared of committed relationships. I never see any strong female characters doing the things most women do. In fiction, a great female character must always act exactly like a man, no matter how unrealistic it may be that a 16 year old girl could kickbox her way out of a group of male assassins etc etc.

For example wearing high heels may be seen as feminine.

Increasingly as I have got older I have become fairly about them as the 'advantages' of them don't really benefit me beyond conforming to expectations and looking conventionally attractive and the disadvantages like comfort and practicality definitely do.

So it may seem that choosing not to wear them is acting " more like men rather than celebrate the fact they're women" at a very very very superficial and stereotypical level.

No issue at all with women who do choose to wear them, but there is also a fair amount of social conditioning etc that may influence that decision.

So on an individual level I would never discourage or judge someone for choosing to wear them, but there is still a discussion to be had about the influences at play

What do you mean by 'act like a man', Lpc3?

@ErrolTheDragon never buy a present, or writes card. Never chat in the playground and organise a play date. Happy to babysit my kid for an hour or two as long as I get trumpets and someone else tidies up.

@ErrolTheDragon I am not the OP, but this seems to be the almighty penis havers roll.

It is probably because I only see the pop culture type feminism which as you say is only one strand of feminism (or maybe it isn't really feminism at all?).

I'm guessing that is also what most young people see though - the be a boss bi*, clap back type content on social media. I can see why this could be empowering but there always seems an undertone to it which implies that the traditional feminine traits are not to be admired and celebrated. If you want to do well, succeed and have a fulfilling life just try and be more like men.

By feminine traits I'm referring to all the stereotypes (maternal, emotional intelligence etc) which as some previous posters have said is probably what women are trying to fight against.

Do you mean the behaviours that gave us the Ladette of the 90s? All alcohol guzzling, shout, rude and aggressive, whilst still wearing a shit ton of make up and high heels?

And then the Spice Girls, all woman power in make up, high heels, knickers on show? The hyper sexualised image of women is ours, we'll own it, sex work is work kind of thing?

The Bitch Boss, named because being loud, impatient, determined just ain't womanly?

There are lots and lots of ways to 'do feminism' and whilst I may dislike, rail against some of them, they are all feminism. Because it's women kicking against those stereotypical norms.

It's the stereotypes, societal expectations of both men and women that are the root of the problem. Patriarchal society would collapse without them.

OP "the be a boss bi*, clap back type content on social media"

Say what now?

Acting like women? who decides how women are meant to act?

I do what ever I bloody well like and its expectations like that which make my blood boil.

I'm also puzzled

Act like a man or act like a woman.

Don't get it. Human behaviour is just getting on with stuff however you do stuff.

@TyneTeas

For example wearing high heels may be seen as feminine.

Increasingly as I have got older I have become fairly about them as the 'advantages' of them don't really benefit me beyond conforming to expectations and looking conventionally attractive and the disadvantages like comfort and practicality definitely do.

So it may seem that choosing not to wear them is acting " more like men rather than celebrate the fact they're women" at a very very very superficial and stereotypical level.

No issue at all with women who do choose to wear them, but there is also a fair amount of social conditioning etc that may influence that decision.

So on an individual level I would never discourage or judge someone for choosing to wear them, but there is still a discussion to be had about the influences at play

High heels were invented for men, they are male riding shoes