Ollie & Gareth Locke & Surrogacy

[Policyschmolicy]

I picked this up in the daily mail, and am frankly appalled. On the one hand I think they seem like nice enough people and want to have a baby, etc … I’ve been a little bit irked about the casual attitude towards surrogates/women in this, but I’m very perturbed by his latest ‘promise’:

• He said: 'As we move forward I will promise I will do everything in my power to try and bring attention to help in changing the British laws to make it easier for people desperately trying to have a family!

'The rules which haven't been reassessed in over 30 years are wildly unfair, currently firmly against gay equality and beyond archaic.

'Why would any government grant equal marriage, but make it so heartbreakingly difficult and frighteningly expensive to have a family, I will do everything in my power to open up the conversation of a modernisation in legislation change!*

What planet are they on?! Of course it’s not equal given that only one group of human beings, i.e. women can actually gestate babies. I mean, what on Earth does he think he can do about that?!

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10350235/amp/Made-Chelseas-Ollie-Locke-shares-heartbreaking-baby-news-surrogate-miscarries-six-weeks.html

@Starcup

*I disagree that this is a free choice in the same way i disagree that hiring out one's vagina in prostitution is rarely a free choice. I will grant there night be the occasional mythical happy hooker and altruistic friend but mostly both 'choices' are borne of poverty and desperation*

@MiladyBerserko

I disagree with this. There are plenty of extremely poor people that still wouldn’t sell their bodies for sex. It is a choice.

I’m speechless

Anythingbutsnow

The Lockes won’t have chosen a surrogate that was in need of the money though

How would you know that one way or another unless you know them very very well?

Hand maiden tale. Just replace the couple in HMT with a gay couple or celebrity couple, that's a future we are walking into. It's all about people's rights, actually certain people's rights. Not ever about empathy or responsibility.

The ‘we’re pregnant’ from two men irritated me.

No, you’re not

Poor woman

Conveyor belt surrogacy will be so much more palatable to the masses when the term mother has been replaced with something objectifying and dehumanising .

Starcup

Disagree all you want. You have to deal with your own conscience.

Renting out your vagina to manky old men or your uterius to rich ex boarders 'influencers' is not a free choice .

Those who seek out and encourage women to make such 'choices and take advantage of women in sucn circumstances are ghouls, IMO.

@DarlingHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Conveyor belt surrogacy will be so much more palatable to the masses when the term mother has been replaced with something objectifying and dehumanising .

I would say it's already happened, we are already there.

Count how many times the word 'mother' follows 'surrogate' in any article on the subject, or how many times the word mother is used by surrogacy agencies, whether they be U.K. so-called altruistic or US and Ukraine commercial surrogacy agencies. Or see how many times the woman herself refers to herself as an extreme babysitter or carrier.

I think it was Ben Cohen on the Nolan podcast about Stonewall who said when a surrogate born baby goes to a same-sex male couple, there is no mother. We're back to when babies were delivered by storks.

@MarshaBradyo

The ‘we’re pregnant’ from two men irritated me.

No, you’re not

Poor woman

This!!

i can't even articulate how irritating, patronising and self-centred this comment is when any man makes it. Not sure if it is actually worse when women say it.

@Catch32

It's heartening to know other people share the discomfort I had about the way this storyline is being played out. I speak as somebody who has not known the profound grief of infertility/childlessness, so appreciate that I am really looking at this from one perspective. But I remember how gut wrenching it was hearing the surrogate mother on TV crying down the phone and expressing her guilt at "failing" the couple. It was horrible to listen to so much pressure being felt by a woman to produce a child that she would never even know and love. I do find it difficult to grasp that somebody would put their health and life at risk to give a child to another couple, and that they can part emotionally with a child they have carried and nurtured for 9 months and held in their own arms. It feels like just another form of commodifying women and I don't know what safeguards there are in place to protect vulnerable women in this scenario.

Yes and the way Ollie’s husband seemed quite angry about it all. Made me feel uncomfortable.

Surrogacy in Cyprus

www.surrogacy365.com/destinations/cyprus/

Yes, the 'we're pregnant', 'we're having ivf' language is disgusting.

That poor woman is just a bit part in her own life.

[quote Clymene]Surrogacy in Cyprus

www.surrogacy365.com/destinations/cyprus/[/quote]
Obviously the 'gender selection' option is abhorrent (and the sanitised language avoids sharing the detail what actually happens, see 'foetal reduction' for more, I don't want to share here) but this at least allows the mother to keep the baby if she chooses, as opposed to the US model which leaves her on the back-foot due to signed contracts, and it is an adoption process, rather than the U.K. model of parental riders or the US model of a pre-birth order. There is also a 3 month cooling off period which is preferential I think to parental rights at birth. The U.K. parental order has to be applied for within 6 months of birth.

"Just after 3 months from the birth of the child, the pregnant woman can express her willingness to renounce motherhood and give the child for adoption to the intentional parents. And there, after an adoption lawsuit, the birth parents can become the legal parents of the baby.
If the pregnant woman decides to keep the baby and does not give up her legal motherhood, she can do it freely, and the intentional parents can not claim the child’s filiation, losing their child inevitably."

@WomanStillNotAFeeling

Anythingbutsnow

The Lockes won’t have chosen a surrogate that was in need of the money though

How would you know that one way or another unless you know them very very well?

I've watched enough MIC to know they are not going to rent a womb from someone who can't afford to pay heating bills and lives in a cheap rented flat.

@nitsandwormsdodger

"test tube babies" were wrong- that was the start of this slippery slope.

How are they wrong ?? I’m just
looking now at my two “ test tube babies “ and wondering how anyone could see anything other than two glorious miracles??

Should be called 'petri dish babies'

We saw this and thought the whole thing was gross. There is nothing stopping them using a donor egg in the UK - they don’t want to because they want to see what the egg donor looks like. Presumably to ensure that they are attractive enough.

Their piece showed little regard for a woman who has gone through the tough process of IVF and then miscarriage. They only complain about her being legally recognised as a mother.

That Cypriot thing is appalling. Local women have rights, so they use a Ukrainian citizen who is apparently not afforded the same protections under Cypriot law.

@KimikosNightmare

Hmmm I can’t agree with this like. Basics you’re saying women shouldn’t have IVF……

Indeed I am. IVF directly created the abomination that is surrogacy.

No it didn't.

So you basically think it's ok to plan to remove a child from its mother just because you like them on telly Anything
Ok then.

I’ve watched enough MIC to know they are not going to rent a womb from someone who can't afford to pay heating bills and lives in a cheap rented flat.

I’ve watched enough MIC to surmise that they are not going to rent a womb from someone who can't afford to pay heating bills and lives in a cheap rented flat in this country

It's not to do with them anyway. I'm sure they are lovely men, who will make great fathers. That doesnt entitle them to farm babies.

I've watched enough MIC to know they are not going to rent a womb from someone who can't afford to pay heating bills and lives in a cheap rented flat.

Oh, you've watched a scripted programme and think you have insight into their lives and know who they are as people. Ok.

Ollie didn't ask Cheska or Binky or any of the other wealthy female characters have a baby for him and his husband though did he? Why was that? They would be more local, they could attend appointments and see the baby kick in person. They could save money on flights too. I wonder why that wasn't a preferable surrogacy arrangement for them.

Here's a further, shorter video investigating surrogacy in Mexico, which is where the Lockes have chosen, as is detailed on their Instagram. The woman had a baby for 10k US which is not even the equivalent of four years of her salary as a maid. Have a look at the street and house where she lives, where she is taken home to after the birth. Maybe think about whether that is the equivalent of not being able to pay for your bills or rent a cheap flat as a U.K. comparison.

The name and circumstances of the woman who has miscarried hasn't been publicised, presumably so no one can look her up and learn what her situation actually is. All we know is she has a family, as is often the case, surrogate mothers value increases due to the number of live births and healthy pregnancies she has had. Finding a nice, compliant, healthy woman who has been pregnant before and has a good track record of being able to grow and deliver babies could be called 'heavenly', especially when she does what you want her to. Since she has 'failed' maybe they don't think of her in such a way anymore.

@SheldonesqueTheBstard

I’ve watched enough MIC to know they are not going to rent a womb from someone who can't afford to pay heating bills and lives in a cheap rented flat.

I’ve watched enough MIC to surmise that they are not going to rent a womb from someone who can't afford to pay heating bills and lives in a cheap rented flat in this country

Ah okay. Is any info known about the mother? I assumed it was someone from similar background to them. I thought they'd go for someone who was going to be very comfortable during pregnancy with regard to nutrition, medical care, housing etc? Unless they are providing this aswell?

Is their surrogate mother in Mexico, not Cyprus @OhHolyJesus?

@MiladyBerserko

Starcup

Disagree all you want. You have to deal with your own conscience.

Renting out your vagina to manky old men or your uterius to rich ex boarders 'influencers' is not a free choice .

Those who seek out and encourage women to make such 'choices and take advantage of women in sucn circumstances are ghouls, IMO.

It’s as if women are 100% controlled by other people, usually men and have no choice at all.

You can not say that’s always the case.

I assumed it was someone from similar background to them

This is because the narrative around surrogacy is deliberately constructed so to prevent the revelation of the realities of the agreements involved. It’s deliberate.