Benedict Cumberbatch says 'men need fixing'

[ErrolTheDragon]

In the Times today

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/society-needs-to-address-toxic-masculinity-benedict-cumberbatch-says-fz2vvqhgl?shareToken=87738e3f9768b2b2d595bafdf7e31559

@turbonerd

What in the hell is a «traditional» man?

The opposite of a 'new man'. Not usually accustomed to manbunnery etc.

Ok, so what is a 'new man'?

@IntermittentParps

Ok, so what is a 'new man'?

Have you really lived through the last 20 years and not encountered the term?

The definition and the reality differ IMO. By definition it's a man who believes in equality and basically pulling his weight with domestic chores/things traditionally seen as 'woman's work'.

In reality, it tends to manifest as manbunned/beardy blokes who lecture people on equality and wokeness IMO. Probably because decent blokes do this stuff without requiring a special name.

Good grief.

I've encountered the term. It's just that wheeled out on its own it's not meaningful.
I'm trying to get to what you think is a 'real' man.
It sounds like that is a man without a bun or a beard, who 'lectures' (or I might suggest just thinks and can talk about?) equality. As for 'wokeness', again we'd need to dig down into that.
Can a 'new man' be a 'decent bloke' too, is my next question? And can/does a 'decent bloke' talk about equality, or no?

Can a 'new man' be a 'decent bloke' too, is my next question? And can/does a 'decent bloke' talk about equality, or no?

Well, a new man is just somebody who believes in equality and sharing of domestic tasks. So there's plenty of things outside of that to consider. However, I think a lot of blokes effectively just virtue signal because they know what women want to hear. Hence all the threads about how he 'changed' further down the line, which IMO is usually 'revealed his true colours.'

A real man is anybody that was born male. In colloquial terms though it's much the same as a 'manly' man - e.g. you see memes like 'real men don't have manbuns' etc.

I don't know why people are so interested in my preferences. I like masculine men and don't really fancy the media obsessed types who spend all their time on social media. I may have been a bit unfair about BC but you do see a lot of men getting insecure about other men and trying to characterise them as 'meatheads' etc. It's not unlike how some women do the "oh, you're too skinny, you're wasting away" thing when really a lot of it is jealousy.

I like masculine men I think people are trying to understand what you mean by 'masculine' and why it matters. Your views on what 'masculine' means or looks like (rugby players and boxers) seem rather narrow and dated.

I may have been a bit unfair about BC Very unfair, I'd say. Quite apart from calling him 'arrogant' and 'woke' (like that's an insult), criticising him for talking about toxic masculinity when it's what he's been asked about in an interview about his film about... toxic masculinity.

I think people are trying to understand what you mean by 'masculine' and why it matters. Your views on what 'masculine' means or looks like (rugby players and boxers) seem rather narrow and dated.

It doesn't matter really. I'm talking about the traditional stereotype of masculine men. It's obviously not going to gel with the sizeable minority on mumsnet who seem intent on pushing the whole 'boys can wear dresses too' thing. Yes they can, and should if they want to, but the average person is not going to view a boy in a dress as being as masculine as a boy playing rugby or dressing up as a cowboy, no matter how far we go down the "oo, but what defines a man" rabbithole.

In regard to BC I hadn't realised he was talking about his film. However, anybody who tells others to "shut up and listen" can generally fuck right off IMO.

I do believe there is such a thing as toxic masculinity, especially in regard to men not wanting to discuss their feelings etc, but too often it's just used as a lazy stereotype against a particular type of man. My partner is one such bloke. Genuinely nice guy who would help anybody, and both responsible and successful in his career. However, he's also pretty muscular and has a squashed nose from his boxing days, which I actually think adds to his rugged charm. He generally dresses pretty well so doesn't look thuggish but I notice certain types of men seem to get intimidated by him, especially the hipster manbun types who my sister works with. It comes across to me as lazy stereotyping mixed with insecurity.

@EightWheelGirl

I think people are trying to understand what you mean by 'masculine' and why it matters. Your views on what 'masculine' means or looks like (rugby players and boxers) seem rather narrow and dated.

It doesn't matter really. I'm talking about the traditional stereotype of masculine men. It's obviously not going to gel with the sizeable minority on mumsnet who seem intent on pushing the whole 'boys can wear dresses too' thing. Yes they can, and should if they want to, but the average person is not going to view a boy in a dress as being as masculine as a boy playing rugby or dressing up as a cowboy, no matter how far we go down the "oo, but what defines a man" rabbithole.

In regard to BC I hadn't realised he was talking about his film. However, anybody who tells others to "shut up and listen" can generally fuck right off IMO.

I do believe there is such a thing as toxic masculinity, especially in regard to men not wanting to discuss their feelings etc, but too often it's just used as a lazy stereotype against a particular type of man. My partner is one such bloke. Genuinely nice guy who would help anybody, and both responsible and successful in his career. However, he's also pretty muscular and has a squashed nose from his boxing days, which I actually think adds to his rugged charm. He generally dresses pretty well so doesn't look thuggish but I notice certain types of men seem to get intimidated by him, especially the hipster manbun types who my sister works with. It comes across to me as lazy stereotyping mixed with insecurity.

the average person is not going to view a boy in a dress as being as masculine as a boy playing rugby or dressing up as a cowboy

I disagree. Society's views on the 'norm' change. (like the Overton Window in politics).

It is 'lazy stereotyping' for people to think of your partner as a thug, but not to talk about 'hipster manbun types'?
OK.

^It is 'lazy stereotyping' for people to think of your partner as a thug, but not to talk about 'hipster manbun types'? hmm
OK.^

Identifying somebody as clearly being part of a subculture (punk/rocker/creative type/etc) isn't the same as making assumptions about their personality based on their appearance, although everybody does the latter to some extent.

I disagree. Society's views on the 'norm' change. (like the Overton Window in politics).

They certainly do change but I'm equally certain that the vast majority of people would find a boy wearing a dress ridiculous. If this weren't the case you'd see more of them.