Benedict Cumberbatch says 'men need fixing'

[ErrolTheDragon]

In the Times today

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/society-needs-to-address-toxic-masculinity-benedict-cumberbatch-says-fz2vvqhgl?shareToken=87738e3f9768b2b2d595bafdf7e31559

What the heck is a 'traditional ' man?

@ErrolTheDragon

He wasn't criticising 'manly men'.

I agree. Some people have completely taken this the wrong way like they are being personally attacked. It's interesting how this triggers people

It's actually a bit of a myth that men kill themselves because they can't express themselves. It is probably a factor but not as big as their natural destructiveness. It's no coincidence that if you're a man you're also the most likely to kill women, children, infants and animals. I do think that their natural destructive impulses are 'allowed' and that they are raised to believe they're better than anyone when in reality evolution itself regards males as the disposable sex. We just set them up badly for a fall by letting them believe they're all that.

I think we would have more success trying to be accepting of all types of men rather than shunning some, which is likely to make them more disenfranchised and hostile to society

Where does you calling him a wet lettuce factor into us accepting all kinds of men?

@Lifewith

What the heck is a 'traditional ' man?

From EightWheelGirl I think one who's physically large. I can't see anything else amongst the waffle beyond being like a boxer physicallg

Well, yes I prefer 'manly' men. What's wrong with that? Being masculine doesn't automatically mean abusive/violent etc.

What is a manly man? Can you describe the physical characteristics or traits please? Because I literally have no idea what constitutes a manly apart from, you know, being an actual man.

@Carboncheque

The suicide rate for men is 3x that for women. Keeping up the ‘man’s man’ front - not showing ‘weakness’ - prevents men from admitting they need help and getting the support they need.

More women attempt suicide than men

More women attempt suicide than men true, but 75% of completed suicides are men. Some of that will be about the violence of method, about how early into crisis its attempted and thus how determined they are to die etc. but its still a massively large difference.

It's actually a bit of a myth that men kill themselves because they can't express themselves. It is probably a factor but not as big as their natural destructiveness

That seems a rather belittling and glib comment. I have no personal experience of violent men. However in my life I've come across men killing themselves several times - in roughly chronological order.

1. A neighbouring farmer shooting himself.
2. A boy in my class hanging himself in the summer before he was due to start university- he was a very gentle person.
3. A colleague's father, also a farmer shooting himself.
4. A colleague's step- son , in his second year at university, hanging himself.
5. In a horrible mirror image of 2 one of my son's friends and band mates doing exactly the same at the same time.
6. Another farmer, not one I knew personally, shooting himself whilst involved in court proceedings about his tenancy.
7. My sister- in- law's brother hanging himself. He had been happily married for over 45 years. His widow has no idea what caused this.
8. And over the years in my professional career a number of fellow solicitors.

In some of these cases the reasons are likely to be despair at failing businesses- others there was no obvious reason.

You call this "natural destructiveness". It's almost as if suicide were no more than breaking a toy.

How many women? Apart from knowing one friend's mother did when she was a child, none.

@Tavelo

It's actually a bit of a myth that men kill themselves because they can't express themselves. It is probably a factor but not as big as their natural destructiveness. It's no coincidence that if you're a man you're also the most likely to kill women, children, infants and animals. I do think that their natural destructive impulses are 'allowed' and that they are raised to believe they're better than anyone when in reality evolution itself regards males as the disposable sex. We just set them up badly for a fall by letting them believe they're all that.

How do you explain 3x as many men killing themselves each month than there are murdered women in an entire year?

Women attempt suicide at the same rate as men, but choose less violent methods.

Or men are just so much more violent….
And own more guns….
Because they are more violent….

@EightWheelGirl
Because women are just one demograohic that they murder, they have children and other men to fit into their schedules too?

@KimikosNightmare
Once again you can't take one person's experience as the basis for what happens generally. Generally men are more destructive than women, this is a fact. Destructive people self destruct more.

I've never known a man to own a gun

I don't know Benedict but he seems ok. However, I do I have an issue with actors lecturing the general public, it seems an easy way to gain publicity.

@greenleathertrousers

I don't know Benedict but he seems ok. However, I do I have an issue with actors lecturing the general public, it seems an easy way to gain publicity.

The context doesn't appear to have been that he was 'lecturing' - he was discussing 'toxic masculinity' in an interview because it's a theme of his latest film.

@EightWheelGirl

I don't really want men to be like him though. He is a bit of a wet lettuce tbh.

Do you know him?

Well, yes, publicity for his latest film was his aim.

@RainLol

Or men are just so much more violent…. And own more guns…. Because they are more violent….

Very few men shoot themselves. It's risky if you miss aim and in the UK the av man wouldn't have access. Pps list of tragic suicides is gun heavy because there's many farmers on there, which unfortunately is a massively high risk group. Do you think farmers are naturally more violent than male teachers or their livelihoods are more precarious and have a much higher level of stress and isolation?

@Lifewith

Don't call men wet lettuces. Least he's trying to speak up

Exactly this is part of toxic masculinity. Part of the problem. Because he’s speaking up about something that needs addressing he’s a wet lettuce? What other qualities does he have that are deemed to be ‘wet lettuce?’ Kindness, compassion, intellect? Nice men are what we need let’s not fuck then over.

Man saying men must fix their behaviour told he needs to fix his manliness. Bit of an insight into the many ways this issue causes damage.

There is something interesting to be explored in the high suicide rate and male violence. Sex differences probably come into it but socialisation is a huge factor. Women reach out more - many of the attempts represent pain but are a non verbal request for support. With men their response to pain is to think that they have to sort it alone. When violence comes from the same place women reach out to friends to help manage strong feelings. I work with teenage boys - they struggle to do this but when they do it helps. It’s why gun ownership increases suicide so much - armies cut their suicide rate by around 70%if soldiers can’t take guns off base. That’s the big risk for farmers and they live in a world where that seems easier than reaching out.

Good on BC for focusing on men and their issues. The more men do this the better for women and men.

What the hell is a manly man?
Calling someone a wet lettuce is downright toxic.