Shamima Begum - misogyny at its finest?

[Schmoana]

Just saw the interview on GMB. It has struck me for a long time that there are hundreds of male ISIS fighters who are British citizens who have been allowed back and prosecuted where appropriate, even without grooming being a factor, and having been directly involved in killing. It’s hardly even reported. But this one woman has been vilified by the British people and British media, and made the figurehead of all that is wrong with ISIS. Her British citizenship has been stripped for populism.

Why is this one woman being held to different standards? What is the difference here between her and the hundreds of men who have been accepted back?

Gahhh she was 15! Honestly if a white 15 year old was groomed by a group of men in UK who then convinced her to marry one of them would you seriously say 'oh she chose to so it's ok?!' No 15 year old are classes as children and are vulnerable. I was a social worker and worked with a lot of 15 year old girls who made some very dangerous choices but most were extremely vulnerable and needed a strong support system which most didn't have. She was married to him at 15! As well! It wouldn't set a dangerous precedent as not all the fighters strip of citizenship were 15 years old at the time. As for people judging her interviews you can't make assumptions how she looks of behaves and what she thinks from that. Judge jury and executioner armchair people.

Well, if we're going to use class analysis, it definitely seems that white individuals are less likely to carry out Islamic terror attacks. I don't think its even debatable. So, the question is whether political correctness is allowed to feature in the objective practice of trying to mitigate risk and gatekeep against dangerous individuals.

@ColorMagicBarbie

Well, if we're going to use class analysis, it definitely seems that white individuals are less likely to carry out Islamic terror attacks. I don't think its even debatable. So, the question is whether political correctness is allowed to feature in the objective practice of trying to mitigate risk and gatekeep against dangerous individuals.

Yeah, on balance, white teenagers are much more likely to get drawn into far right terrorism than Islamic terrorism, but the point made by @MushroomQueen stands nonetheless.

But my point also stands. Even if she was 15, she is now an adult with links to dangerous terrorists and she doesn't seem particularly repentant. Should we put a whole population at risk to do right by her?

@PaterPower

“And people are ignoring the sexual abuse she must have suffered”

Why “must” she have suffered sexual abuse? She knew she was going out to marry a Jihadi, that was the whole point and that’s what happened. He’s a Dutch national and still alive in a prison camp.

Has she said he abused her? Has she ever said she was abused by anyone else? If that were true, surely she’d be screaming it from the rooftops at this point; she’s clearly prepared to say almost anything else to get back in so why wouldn’t she say that, if there was even a sniff of it?

There are allegations that she abused other women in her power though… who should garner the real sympathy.

Bc she was under the age of consent when she left. I still don't understand how people vilify a child who was groomed and then abused.

Bc she was under the age of consent when she left. I still don't understand how people vilify a child who was groomed and then abused.

But she was well above the age of criminal responsibility.

Tbh, there are so many other innocent people in need of help. Think of all the Afghan students who'd been accepted into UK universities and were supposed to be coming here in September, but are now stuck living under Shamima's mates the Taliban. And the many other humanitarian crises throughout the world.

Shamima Begum isn't even on the radar!

I think most 15 year olds know that terrorist organisations that behead and mutilate people are things you don't join.

It would take a fucking awful lot of grooming to convince me that the people setting people on fire, throwing people off buildings, drowning them and leaving bombs all over the place are people I should be getting behind.

Well, if we're going to use class analysis, it definitely seems that white individuals are less likely to carry out Islamic terror attacks. I don't think its even debatable

Just my personal experience, the darker skinned Muslim women I have known as friends and acquaintances have been very opposed to Daesh and terrorism.

The while converts I have met and got chatting to on the bus or in the shops (I am a very chatty person) have been some of the most scary, radicalised people I have met, and I lived in an area where I ofen bumped into a certain jail dodging Islamist preacher outside my home.

It is my understanding that some white converts can be much more easily radicalised than people who have been raised in multi-generational Muslim families. Women from Muslim families have often expressed concern and disgust at the extremist attitudes of some white converts.

I mean, just think about this woman, who I belive is the most wanted woman in the world.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite

also see
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally-Anne_Jones

and
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid

and
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Letts

[quote hoodathunkit]Well, if we're going to use class analysis, it definitely seems that white individuals are less likely to carry out Islamic terror attacks. I don't think its even debatable

Just my personal experience, the darker skinned Muslim women I have known as friends and acquaintances have been very opposed to Daesh and terrorism.

The while converts I have met and got chatting to on the bus or in the shops (I am a very chatty person) have been some of the most scary, radicalised people I have met, and I lived in an area where I ofen bumped into a certain jail dodging Islamist preacher outside my home.

It is my understanding that some white converts can be much more easily radicalised than people who have been raised in multi-generational Muslim families. Women from Muslim families have often expressed concern and disgust at the extremist attitudes of some white converts.

I mean, just think about this woman, who I belive is the most wanted woman in the world.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite

also see
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally-Anne_Jones

and
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid

and
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Letts[/quote]
I don't think you can really argue that white people are the driving force behind radical Islam. 🤣

I really hope she succeeds her latest appeal and the Home Office are utterly shamed and ridiculed. Of course she has been exploited, first by ISIS then by Tory politicians wanting to appeal to right wing nutters. I don't see how the court could find otherwise. It's a shameful episode for this government, utterly appalling.

But she was well above the age of criminal responsibility

Yes, but the law takes the fact you are still a child into account.

White girls get groomed by men in Rotherham - they are innocent.
White Virginia Giuffre groomed by Jeffrey Epstein - totally innocent even when recruiting other girls for him.
Brown girl groomed by Canadian spy and sexually abused - guilty no mercy for the likes of her.

Makes me sick but then hypocrisy always does.

Sexually abused? She married one of the
terrorists willingly and has never said she regrets it. Are you seriously saying a woman who goes off to join ISIS and marries one of them is the same as a teenage girl who is raped and abused in her own country by a ring of abusers? One is an ideology that the girl willingly joined and the other is something else entirely. I accept Begum has been groomed, but she had plenty of time to regret her choices. There isn’t really any evidence that she did, until her course of action made life very difficult and she switched tactics.

What about the innocent people murdered by a regime she supported? We don’t know what she actually did herself, but her husband was out murdering people with her support.

Well said!

She was 15 and immediately married off to someone. She wasn't old enough to consent. She was groomed, you admit that, but she is still guilty unlike the other girls I mentioned. Funny that.

Do you think the Canadian spy who recruited her bares any blame, does that carry on to the Canadian government? Easier to blame a 15 year old with no power.

Yet men who did the murdering have been allowed back. Can you explain that? It is reported that over 400 adult men who were fighters have been allowed back but a 15 year old girl can never be forgiven.

If they have been allowed back that is a disgrace. I have never heard that former ISIS fighters have been allowed back into the country.

How can girls groomed by abusers in the U.K. be guilty? Guilty of what? Why is VG guilty?

Begum willingly joined a terrorist organisation.

I have never heard that former ISIS fighters have been allowed back into the country

Well, they have, it's common knowledge and not disputed, Google it.

The way Begum has been treated is the closest I've seen in modern times to a witch trial. Grown men seem terrified of her powers.

Guilty of skipping off from school or home and going off with men in cars or do you think 14 and 15 year olds should be doing that? It wasn't their fault, they were groomed just groomed for something different to Begum.

Other victims of Epstein have accused VG of recruiting and training them.

I think those girls were in care and from difficult backgrounds. Looking for love and attention and joining a terrorist group that murders people are very different things.

She was 15 when she left and I would have fully supported her being brought back if it could have been safely done at 15, 16, 17 or even 18 as she was a vulnerable child who needed to be kept safe - or even older if it had been clear she had had no idea what she was getting into and wanted out. But as an adult she still wanted ISIS to succeed, the only time she changed her mind was when the caliphate all fell apart and it became clear there wasn't going to be a future for ISIS. She held on till the last minute though!

I am happy for her to be denied citizenship just like all the other dual nationality ISIS fighters.

Shamima Begum wasn't in care, she went off with her mates from school - where are you making this stuff up from?