Sexism and teenage boys - what do they think?

[wiltonism]

It's there, of course it is. My friend's very bright daughter was told to 'get back in the kitchen' by a boy in her class last year. And obviously I can't get what happened in Plymouth out of my head.

But what do teenage boys think about this? Is there any research? Where do I look?

@NiceGerbil In the U.K. 97% of workplace fatalities were male, nearly 200 men lost their lives trying to earn a living.

The 5 most dangerous occupations are:

Construction
Agriculture
Fabrication/manufacturing
Transportation / materials handling
Waste/recycling

Internationally you can add in fishing, mining, energy and forestry.

Literally every one of these occupations is overwhelmingly male.

Now I’ve heard lots of people demand more women in FTSE boardrooms but I’ve not seen many demanding more women in any of the above jobs.

@CBUK2K2 got to hand it to you, you are definitely good value for money.

[quote CBUK2K2]@NiceGerbil There isn’t a rule book that says this is the line as it’s down to the individual. I would however feel I’d failed as a parent if my child crumpled and demanded their boss intervened if some idiot mad a dad joke about women bring in the kitchen.

Maybe it’s because I’ve worked in lots of places where people want to murder me because of my race, the police are as likely to rob you as help you and extortion is the norm that I find it disheartening that some adults are actually getting upset about school playground level stuff.

If we indoctrinate people to see everything as sexism/racism/?-ism that is what they will find in life.[/quote]
Harsh but true IMO.

Social justice types/woke/feminists etc seem nowadays to be the polar opposite of 'strong women'. It's all microaggresions and getting worked up about minor events the average man wouldn't bat an eyelid over.

It was 142 people who died in the workplace in the most recent year btw, not "nearly 200 men".

www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf

In the period 2016 to 2018, 547 women died as a result of childbirth, so about 180 a year during that period.

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n152

[quote CBUK2K2]@NiceGerbil There isn’t a rule book that says this is the line as it’s down to the individual. I would however feel I’d failed as a parent if my child crumpled and demanded their boss intervened if some idiot mad a dad joke about women bring in the kitchen.

Maybe it’s because I’ve worked in lots of places where people want to murder me because of my race, the police are as likely to rob you as help you and extortion is the norm that I find it disheartening that some adults are actually getting upset about school playground level stuff.

If we indoctrinate people to see everything as sexism/racism/?-ism that is what they will find in life.[/quote]
In what situation would a boss intervene in a school?

Not following you. Can you expand on that a bit?

...

The DD did not 'crumple'. She went home and told her mum because she was pissed off. Her mum posted on here to say wwyd. That's not ok?

...

Where do you live? Genuinely interested. South Africa? I only say that because I know a fair few people from there.
I'm sorry that you live in a corrupt and violent, racist county. Could well be somewhere else obv. Plenty of places around the world where it's just terrible for certain groups. Ethnic cleansing never stops and nor does discrimination. Where is it? I'm sorry you're in a situation where there's such Visceral hatred.

What are the figures in your country?

I really appreciate the UK stats but with your situation I think it would be important to put your posts in context with your society.

@PickUpAPepper Men have been the punch bags of feminists for years and they’re getting sick of it. It’s gone from valid gripes to a point where some women seem to want to pin the blame for every negative experience on men. Not where you want to be in your career? Men! Want to start a family but can’t find a partner? Men! The real world is tough? Men!

For a long time now men have been told to shut up if they have the audacity to point out any alternative perspective. Now women are starting to see what it’s like when the shoe is on the other foot with the current trans agenda. It’s pretty clear they’re the ones being demonised, marginalised and told to shut up they don’t like it very much.

Given your situation why are you spending time talking about this?

Which country are you in? It makes a lot of difference because we're talking from different contexts.

Is it south Africa?

@NiceGerbil - I live in England? But as I said work takes me to lots of less pleasant places. Mainly in the Middle East and Africa.

Your work sends you into situations where people want to murder you due to the colour of your skin?

I'm guessing an industry that is non standard.

Really interested to know what you do. Sounds like you have to go into really difficult areas. Zimbabwe? Or maybe armed forces.

Really interesting, I hope you are paid very well.

That's a risk you could say no to though presumably?

@AssassinatedBeauty Deaths in childbirth is an entirely unrelated and arbitrary factor.

If you want to randomly pluck random health data in 2019 mental health issues lead to over 6’000 people to take their own lives 75% of them were male.

There are around 1 million people living with work related illness in the U.K. (asbestosis, silicosis etc) again the vast majority are male.

More men die in every age group and that’s why male life is always years lower than women’s.

Ah it's our job to have babies and so that's a risk we must accept if there are to be children. (That men want too generally).

It's a lot of women. No note of surprise or concern.

What is your job that sends you into such danger? You don't have to say obv. Could be secret maybe.

I'm also interested still to know where the line is for you in the OPs DD situation.
When would you say it was tell a teacher time?

And I don't understand what's wrong with her telling her mum either.

Another question sorry.
What is the position of women and girls in the countries you go to for work where people want to murder you because of the colour of your skin?

@NiceGerbil I’m an engineer, it’s not particularly obscure/interesting. I fix industrial stuff for big companies and some of them happen to be in fairly grim places. Since becoming a dad I’ve tried to be a bit more selective.

I get paid OK for what I do, bit it’s because my work (like a lot of men) involves travel/time away/risk/discomfort. Which is something these gender pay gap studies seem to conveniently gloss over.

You said that-

'I’ve worked in lots of places where people want to murder me because of my race, '

From what you've said now I'm thinking that was maybe a bit of an exaggeration? Or at least was worded in a way intended to misdirect.

Out of interest. In those countries where you feel this risk.

What is the situation for women generally who live there?

And what of the risks in plenty of countries to women who go there? Which didn't used to even be mentioned on the foreign office travel pages. Maybe is now. I'll check.

'I get paid OK for what I do, bit it’s because my work (like a lot of men) involves travel/time away/risk/discomfort'.

Most men in the UK do not have travel/ time away as part of their jobs.

What does discomfort mean?

What about the risks to women that are not applicable to men?

Does it not cross your mind that men and women face different risks?

@NiceGerbil No? Some of the places I’ve worked include Libya, Algeria, Nigeria, Angola, Siberia, Iraq, Iran and a few South American countries. So no it’s not really an exaggeration.

Lots of the companies want you to attend an induction on how to act if you’re kidnapped and some want you to do their small arms courses.

Yowzers that does sound scary.

You say you're not particularly well paid for it. You should have a chat with them about that. After all it's taking you away from home and exposing you to massive risk. That's £££ time obviously esp if experienced. Don't let them take the piss. And there are other employers. Don't fall into the better the devil you know trap. In the end the only way in many situations to get a decent hike is to move jobs.

That aside. And in general.

Who are you at risk of being murdered by? Men or women?

Kidnapped by?
Men or women?

How are the women in those countries treated? They have it easy?

Referring to the earlier stat where you dismissed women dying in childbirth as irrelevant/ arbitrary.

You were talking about risk but dismissed that risk.

Obv around the world loads of women/ girls don't have a choice who they have sex with/ marry and abortion etc is not available.

And so plenty die, and many many more have life changing injuries.

On what basis do you dismiss that risk?

Is it because it's not related to paid work?

I mean it wasn't my point but I'm interested.

I suppose in the end. How do you define risk?

@NiceGerbil A lot more men travel (stay away from home) for work than you’d think. There are 600’000 lorry drivers in the U.K. about 1/4 “tramp”.

There’s 1.5 million construction workers with a significant number working away.

Big infrastructure projects like HS2 or building a bypass involve 100’000’s of people that generally travel in gangs.

Industrial projects like building power stations or shutdowns on chemical plants etc employ 1000’s.

There’s between 50’000 and 150’000 people working in oil and had in the North Sea depending on boom/bust. 1000’s also work in other parts of the world.

Thee are 1000’s that do similar work to me.

Sailers/seafarers - cargo, ferries, crude ships etc.

Then there are lots of white collar workers, IT contractors, financial services workers, sales people, pilots.

There are only about 15 million men of working age, you add all these groups up and you’re about 1 in 10. I’d say that’s a lot.

That's really interesting thanks. You clearly have a big interest in this. Which is good obv.

So I suppose my question then is.

You don't seem to understand that the male and female experiences are different. And issues need to be considered in that context.

You talk about risk of being murdered or kidnapped. That's a risk from other men I'd assume? In engineering. A male dominated industry.

Certainly around the world men and boys are in various cultures/ situations where they are at risk. Mining in China just came to mind. Very high death rate.

Loads of other stuff. Suicide rate you have mentioned. Car fatalities. Gang violence.

Women face different issues. That lots of women relate to and get angry about etc. And try to do something about.

What I don't understand is why men aren't note proactive (although there are some great charities around) working to help with issues globally?

And what I really don't understand is what telling women they're weak etc on a feminist board is going to do to help with all these things.

And so regardless of whether more men are lorry drivers, I find it sad that girls are still being expected to put up with this sexist bullshit.

It chips away at a person; yes a girl can be resilient and bat away comments but every tiny bit of mental energy that goes into that is being diverted from mental energy that woman or girl could be using for her own benefit.

Meanwhile the boy smirks and saunters away leaving the girl/woman annoyed.

Next it's a bloke brushing up against you on the tube; a shoulder barge on the pavement.

I don't think most men have any idea how women "just get on with it". It's laughable to think we're all complaining snowflakes- generally by the time a woman complains it's because she's had a gutful of it.

And on the subject of risk, I would like to introduce the risk to a woman of being killed by a male. Yet another story today of a man killing his intimate partner and entering a "rough sex" plea. The judge apparently commended him on his previous good character, commented on the victim's mental health issues and gave him less than four years in prison.

No they don't because they don't want to.

Those with these views are just not interested. And won't change their minds.

Bullshit. I am from Nigeria. I lived there from 0 -19 years of age.
I have watched the kidnappings.
My father was stabbed multiple times by the neighbour while the staff fled by climbing a fence. One was 8 months pregnant.
I have watched rituals.

Don't be stupid.

The root cause of most of that violence is the very thing that causes a teenage boy to say "get back in the kitchen" and the acceptance of the violence is the very thing that causes females to ignore it.
Whether the effects are being felt by boys and girls, it needs to be stamped out for Nigeria to progress.
Arguing for people to put up with it because a worse version happens elsewhere is nonsensical.

March on my women, you serve everyone with your causes. A nation survives when its women thrive.