Sexism and teenage boys - what do they think?

[wiltonism]

It's there, of course it is. My friend's very bright daughter was told to 'get back in the kitchen' by a boy in her class last year. And obviously I can't get what happened in Plymouth out of my head.

But what do teenage boys think about this? Is there any research? Where do I look?

[CBUK2K2]

@AssassinatedBeauty It's not really odd? It's an observation about you appearing to get genuinely upset (demanding serious consequences!) for someone making a Ken Dod-esk joke about women and kitchens.

Who cares? There are idiots in the world, if you came to me as an employer and complained about something so trivial I'd take a much dimer view of you than the accused.

[AlexaShutUp]

@AssassinatedBeauty, if you came to me with such a complaint in the workplace, I would absolutely take you seriously, and I wouldn't take a dim view of you either. Any more than I would take a dim view of someone reporting racist, disabilist or homophobic comments etc. Few organisations would knowingly tolerate this kind of behaviour.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Ah. Dismissing with claims of excess emotion. So familiar. I'm not upset. One can expect serious consequences for sexism without being "upset". Telling women to get back to the kitchen isn't a joke. It's not funny for one thing, and it's being used to undermine the girl/woman in question and make her day to day life that bit more unpleasant.

I would have a dimmer view of you as an employer if you ignored sexist comments in the workplace and took no action against those making them. I repeat my earlier question - would you have a dimmer view of a black employee if they raised objections to you for being told to "get back to the jungle"?

[ChaneySays]

I'm a bit uncomfortable about comparing the plight of the modern western woman to the historical plight of black people tbh.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Then swap for a homophobic or disablist "joke" if you're too uncomfortable. The point remains the same.

[DelurkingAJ]

It makes me cross because the boys I knew who said things like that then moved on to being the men who put their hands up strangers’ skirts in night clubs and laughed when they objected. If we don’t stop the little things then the bigger ones become banter too.

Sure, I can laugh off an off colour joke as an adult (3 years as often the only girl in a PhD lab of 12 will do that) but I don’t expect it in a formal setting. Keep your unfunny, purile humour to your friends.

[CBUK2K2]

@AssassinatedBeauty Honest answer, as someone who's worked intentionally a lot and frequently been on the wrong end of racial abuse, threats of violence and rabid customers I've never felt the need to get an employer to fight my battles for me.

I employ people to solve problems, so I'd expect them to have at least had a go at dealing with this fairly easy to resolve situation before demanding I take "serious action" they are adults after all.

Would you put someone in charge of making difficult decisions in stressful situations if they can't cope with being told to get back in the kitchen?

What happens when something goes wrong with a job, it costs our best customer a lot of money,they phone up and talk to you in a tone you don't like. Do I refuse to do business with them? Report them to the police? Tell them off?

Would I reprimand an employee if a complaint was made about either thing, yes, because legally you'd have to. But as above I'd very much hope the people I work with are resilient enough to deal with it themselves.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Yet again you are making the incorrect assumption that making a formal complaint about a work colleague's sexism means that the woman on the receiving end cannot cope with such comments in that moment and would need someone else to "fight their battles for them". Both things are possible! Why do you persist in suggesting they are not? Deal with sexism (racism, homophobia, disablist attitudes) where it occurs rather than sweeping it under the carpet officially and giving people with nasty narrow minded attitudes no cause to reconsider.

[CBUK2K2]

@DelurkingAJ If you want boys to grow up to be decent morale men they need decent male role model and society needs to stop demonising them for showing any sort of ambition.

[AlexaShutUp]

In my experience, the people who are brave enough to raise concerns about a toxic culture are actually the ones who perfectly capable of challenging stuff for themselves. They are assertive enough to recognise that they shouldn't have to tolerate that kind of shit.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

You know it's total nonsense that society demonises boys/men for showing ambition. What's objected to is boys/men being misogynist and/or unnecessarily aggressive/violent/hostile, for example. It is very simplistic to think that there is only one way of being a man, that must involve being rigidly stereotypically masculine.

[CBUK2K2]

@AssassinatedBeauty You're really not coming across as a person who is dealing with this 1990's dad joke when you talk about it having "serious consequences". I have enough to do as an employer I don't need to be spending time and money dealing with school playground level stuff.

If a colleague persistently makes remarks you're not happy with after you've told them where to go, that is bullying and unacceptable, but that's not what you're describing.

You demanding a person be disciplined over single bad joke isn't going to win you any allies in the real world.

How do you suggest we deal with all these isms? If you choose to view the world thorough that lens you can turn almost anything in to a slur with a bit of effort.

Some are so keen to seek out offence I've actually been chastised for offering a woman my seat on a train and holding a door.

You didn't answer with of my questions about putting you in charge or how I should deal with the terse customer?

[CBUK2K2]

@AssassinatedBeauty

You know it's total nonsense that society demonises boys/men for showing ambition. What's objected to is boys/men being misogynist and/or unnecessarily aggressive/violent/hostile, for example. It is very simplistic to think that there is only one way of being a man, that must involve being rigidly stereotypically masculine.

@AssassinatedBeauty Are you male?

[RubySlippers123]

[quote CBUK2K2]@RubySlippers123 I've got to ask why boys would want to support feminism? A cause that solely promotes females. I could see them getting behind equal-ism or fair-ism but to expect them to get behind what's currently sold as feminism is going to be a stretch.[/quote]
Feminism is about equality 🤷🏻‍♀️.

[CBUK2K2]

@RubySlippers123 If it's about equality why do we see all female short lists for jobs?

Discrimination in appointments? (women are twice as likely to get a job if interviewing for a STEM job)

Quotas to get certain numbers of women in to some jobs?

I've never seen a feminist demand woman should get an equal share of the dangerous and dirty jobs like they do with demanding they be made managers and board members.

I've not seen any feminists complaining about the 60% of university entrants being feale.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Other people live in the "real world" just as much as you, odd to assume otherwise. The real and serious consequence for a one off sexist comment like your misogynistic bad "joke" would be a formal reprimand and a warning not to continue with such comments. This has been the actuality in more than one workplace that i have worked in. It shouldn't have to escalate to bullying before it's dealt with.

If people can't manage not to be homophobic, racist, misogynist or disablist in the workplace then they should (and thankfully often do) learn that there will be unpleasant consequences for them. It's not that complicated.

[NewlyGranny]

The bright girl doesn't even need to hear or acknowledge the "Get back in the kitchen" idiocy, does she? It doesn't deserve airtime. She is free to turn her back and carry on a conversation with someone worth listening to or just get on with her work and let the remark hang orphaned in the air. What can be said that wouldn't be an invitation to wrestling a pig?

If it's repeated, she can report the sexist remarks and have witnesses that she refused to engage or be goaded.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

I'm just going to ask... do you have any evidence for all those assertions? Thanks.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

[quote CBUK2K2]@RubySlippers123 If it's about equality why do we see all female short lists for jobs?

Discrimination in appointments? (women are twice as likely to get a job if interviewing for a STEM job)

Quotas to get certain numbers of women in to some jobs?

I've never seen a feminist demand woman should get an equal share of the dangerous and dirty jobs like they do with demanding they be made managers and board members.

I've not seen any feminists complaining about the 60% of university entrants being feale.[/quote]
You'll never get a feminist to answer these. 😂

[BoopSombra]

Women have requested/demanded the right to join close combat roles in the military, which where previously barred to them, for years.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

@BoopSombra

Women have requested/demanded the right to join close combat roles in the military, which where previously barred to them, for years.

But in the US only 27% in women are in favour of making the draft universal to both sexes, in contrast to 65% of men. Funny that!

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps neither sex should be subject to possible military draft? In the UK women were conscripted during World War Two, and prevented (by men) from being in combat roles. Nevertheless many women did end up bearing arms and coming under fire.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

Men still have to sign up for the draft in the states, they call it selective service. I believe it was a criminal offence not to in recent years but now just means that you don't get state sponsored education etc. Despite overwhelming majority of women being against the female draft, many still seem happy to urge the military to send more men back to Afghanistan.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Any idea where these stats about the US draft are coming from, other than thin air?

Not sure why there's a massive derail about equality in military service tho 🤷🏼‍♀️