Responding to male colleague's motherhood comments

[Lizzie523]

Let me start by saying I'm not a mother - I'm in my late 20s. I'm nowhere near it either as I'm single currently and don't even know that I definitely want to have children.

So this male colleague says to me in our loud open place office: do you want to have children? None of his business.

I asked him why he was asking & he said he was discussing the expense with a male colleague. I just brushed it off and continued working. He then asked if I had children.

Later, I was advising him on a work issue and he joked 'you'd make a terrible mother.' This caught me off guard but it was said quite loudly and we work open plan.

I've already had to ask this colleague to keep their distance lately as he was practically sitting on my lap. I will be working with him for the foreseeable.

I don't think I should let these comments slide but I don't want to get into it in the office floor either. WWYD?

Those are totally inappropriate comments. Is the company large enough to have a proper HR section? What's your relationship like with your line manager? If at all possible I wouldn't let those comments go and would follow your company policy on harassment/bullying in the workplace.

Yes email to HR.

Other than that feel no hesitation about ignoring him, being blunt and telling him he’s being rude.

@AssassinatedBeauty so first of all, they no longer have an HR company due to cost cutting. But they do occasionally consult an HR company on various things so I'd have to look into it.

Secondly my line manager has just left! I really valued her support too

To be honest it is a sinking ship and I am looking for a new job. But it is taking a while and I can feel any mental health slipping in the meantime.

I've even considered asking to be moved although it might look a bit odd. I just happen to be positioned between this guy and a few other lairy guys.

Another conversation today was a few of my male colleagues discussing breasts next to me. Never happened before - since this one guy started the culture has shifted.

But combine this with the commentary form the other guy and it feels like quite an oppressive environment for women to work in. And plenty of my colleagues overhear it.

Raise it with his manager and explain in detail how it makes you feel. This is no longer acceptable in the workplace. If the manager does nothing, go higher and higher until they take it seriously.

I would start keeping a note of each instance of sexist behaviour - comments, physical inappropriateness etc. Get a notebook and keep it to hand, so you can make contemporaneous notes as much as possible.

It sounds like your company are outsourcing HR when they have a need for it, but there should still be a clear process for what an employee can do if they are having issues at work.

The other thing you could try, with your notebook in hand, is interrupt their sexist chat and say that what they're talking about is inappropriate in any workplace and they need to stop doing it. You could make it obvious that you're writing their responses to your request down, which might freak them out a bit.

The final thing was the lairy guy hard staring at my colleague in a meeting. As soon as I caught him, he looked away. He did it to me the previous week, so now I just ignore him aside from professional pleasantries.

@AssassinatedBeauty I will start keeping a diary tonight of the last few instances. I never had any issues with the other guys before and considered them friends at one time. I am sad that they get sucked into this kind of conversation and find it so disrespectful. It has changed my opinion of them.

@AtrociousCircumstance

Yes email to HR.

Other than that feel no hesitation about ignoring him, being blunt and telling him he’s being rude.

I also think this is good advice. I was shocked and didn't really feel like I could respond when the comments were first made.

I think just saying 'that was rude' each time should make it clear that I think he's pushing it.

There’s a phrase “return the embarrassment to sender”. It’s hard because women are generally socialised to be polite and smooth over awkwardness. But he is being really obnoxious here!

There’s nothing wrong with giving him a word look and saying “what a weird question!” Or “why are you asking about my uterus?” or “that’s a really unpleasant thing to say”. Or whatever you want.

Yes it’s unfriendly. So is him telling you you’d make a bad mother. If he tells you it was a joke, don’t engage, just give him a dirty look.

I would use the P word. As in, let’s keep it professional in the office shall we?

'Later, I was advising him on a work issue and he joked 'you'd make a terrible mother.'

Wanker.

Also I reckon you should have embarrassed him, but it's easier said than done. If he said it that loudly, you should have gone -

'Excuse me everyone. Yeah, just to let EVERYBODY in the room know, this man right here think he know what being good parent is, so if you need some help with your parenting skills, here's you guy!!'

or simply -

'Gosh tell it to someone who actually cares'

Unless this some stupid attempt to flirt with a woman he knows is out of his league, he said that wound you very personally. The only responses should be to humiliate him or to show that you give zero fucks.

[quote Lizzie523]@AssassinatedBeauty so first of all, they no longer have an HR company due to cost cutting. But they do occasionally consult an HR company on various things so I'd have to look into it.

Secondly my line manager has just left! I really valued her support too

To be honest it is a sinking ship and I am looking for a new job. But it is taking a while and I can feel any mental health slipping in the meantime.

I've even considered asking to be moved although it might look a bit odd. I just happen to be positioned between this guy and a few other lairy guys.[/quote]
I feel really bad for you. It's really tough being trapped in an environment where you have to be exposed to chimps competing for dominance. I think it's a good idea that you're looking for a new job. This kind of thing is usually enabled by whoever the management is and that's a difficult thing to tackle alone. You need support.

The "keep it professional in the office" is good advice.

Also "are you actually trying to get me to make an official complaint about you making this a hostile environment for women?" might shut him up. Saying it straight out, leaves him nowhere to hide. The "it's only a joke" will be the inevitable response, to which you can reply, that everyone needs to find it funny for a joke to be professionally acceptable.

Then if he does it again, you've given him fair warning that you won't tolerate it, so go to your line manager and ask how to make a formal complaint.

Just my opinion but to me you might be better served by spending some time reflecting on why you're offended by someone asking if you'd like to have a family one day than getting wound up about it.

Who is your current manager OP? Honestly, in the first instance, I'd email them and frame it as asking for advise.

Say something like, the below instances have all happened in the last week, I find this conduct extremely unprofessional and designed to make me uncomfortable and I would like advise on how to respond.

I would definitely include the reference to breasts. I think 'do you want children' is something that can come up if you're having a chat with co-workers where personal things are being discussed but its incredibly clear the context was wildly inappropriate. Also you were obviously trying not to discuss the context.

So: start by asking for advise. Keep a diary. Hopefully it will ring a fuckton of alarm bells for your manger who will escalate it - I would probably also ask if you can be moved.

I hope it improves OP, its not your responsibility to deal with his inappropriate conduct so I think escalating ASAP is the best way to go about it. And if you're planning on escalating, I actually don't think smart remarks or witty comebacks help, they can make it look like 'banter' (shudder) whereas the line about 'lets keep things professional' shows its unwelcome and you're trying to politely shut it down.

When someone is pulled up for this kind of inappropriate behaviour the response is usually along the lines of:-

"It was a joke. Dont you have any sense of humour?"

"Regardless of how it was intended, joke or not, it was a grossly unprofessional and childish way to behave/thing to say."

"No one else has complained" (in the past)

"Well I am complaining now. It matters to me and my opinion is just as important as that or anyone else."

@simitra You class asking a colleague if they would have a family as inappropriate? I'd say that was chit chat.

Don't you think it's a bit intrusive to ask anyone in any circumstances if they are planning on having a family, apropos of nothing? You don't have any idea about their personal circumstances, and risk upsetting them or forcing them to reveal personal information they'd rather not, in the course of general "chit chat".

Asking once, and being told that it's none of his business, then asking again, and then telling her "jokingly" that she would be a terrible mother is not just ordinary "chit chat". Add in the inappropriate physical closeness and the discussion about breasts with male colleagues, and it's all obviously not acceptable in the workplace.

I'd grab a pen and paper and ask Jim to repeat what he said. Watching you write it down might make him think again.

[quote CBUK2K2]@simitra You class asking a colleague if they would have a family as inappropriate? I'd say that was chit chat.[/quote]
What about telling something you work with they'd be a terrible parent? Or having a chat about womens breasts?

CBUK2K2

I refer to the usual defences people put up when challenged on the kinds of remarks the OP finds offensive. Generally they accuse you of being too sensitive or claim it was a joke.

Try reading my post just a little more carefully my dear! If you are going to troll at least give the impression you can read English.

Just my opinion but to me you might be better served by spending some time reflecting on why you're offended by someone asking if you'd like to have a family one day than getting wound up about it.

The assumption that women want to discuss their possible future plans for a family in an open office, the potential for discrimination if she says yes - don’t give that project to X, she’ll be off having kids at some point, the sensitivity around potential fertility issues which you either have to lie about or disclose, lots to be offended about.

I remember a male colleague asking why I wasn’t knocked up yet after announcing his wife’s pregnancy with his third child - I had just found out I wouldn’t be able to conceive naturally and found myself in the position of brushing it off with a “oh it’s far too soon to be thinking about that”, which was a lie, we’d been thinking, and trying, for 3 years.

Personal questions of that nature carry a different weight for women than men, and should be kept out of the office.

so first of all, they no longer have an HR company due to cost cutting.

Really? Wow. Not good.

'Later, I was advising him on a work issue and he joked 'you'd make a terrible mother.'

"And you would make a very piss poor Human being!"

'Excuse me everyone. Yeah, just to let EVERYBODY in the room know, this man right here think he know what being good parent is, so if you need some help with your parenting skills, here's you guy!!'

Fucking brilliant!

I saw a new answer to rude question.
You start with I don't wish to answer/ do that.
They say why not?
You answer....... I just won't. Or can not.

It works because your not giving them any feed back.