16 year old niece only wants money for her birthday for a boob job!

[Charlize43]

This is a bit of a rant, so apologies in advance.

I had a bit of a row last week with my Sis as her daughter, who is 16 texted me to say that she only wanted money for her birthday as she is saving up for a boob job! She doesn't look underdeveloped to me and is still growing! Giving her money for her birthday is not the issue for me, I'm more taken aback by what she wants to spend it on.

My Sis is very much of the attitude, let her do what she wants but I'm a little disappointed that she seems completely obsessed with Love Island and that particular lifestyle; influencers like Lottie Moss & Zara McDermott who promote a very sexualised image; and singers like Cardi B and Meghan thee stallion (what type of name is that?) who just seem like singing strippers to me.

I am the eldest, and when I was 16, I grew up with singers like Annie Lennox, Alison Moyet, Kate Bush, and Chrissie Hynde - women who didn't have to be half naked and sexed up to promote their music.

My niece went out last night with two of her friends: one was wearing a suit jacket with clearly nothing on underneath but a pair of shorts and every time she moved I'd get a good view of her breasts. The other wore some kind of cross over top that had both her boobs visibly hanging out from the bottom (I'm not making this up), my niece was wearing a sports bra and a pair of combat trousers. I have no idea where they were going and my sister didn't seem to care.

When did girls become so sexualised? I've never really got how it is suppose to be 'empowering' to dress like that. I didn't seem to get that memo.

Clearly I am too old to understand the younger generation but I'm seeing a lot of body obsessions, bikini pics, boob jobs, big blown up lips, posting selfies in your undies on Instagram, etc.

My niece says she'd love to go on Love Island. Is this what young people aspire to these days?

I feel like I'm the only one standing here with my mouth open. Maybe I should just shut up and go back to listening to Alison Moyet.

Does anyone else feel like this? I don't recall young women being so sexualised when I was young...

@Weebleweeble

The men are toned, tanned, waxed, coiffed - a lot of men aren't like that and may never be ....... I'm sure some teen boys have worries over how they look.

That's completely different to girls showing their breasts in public.

Hi OP, I'm just a few years older than your niece so can maybe offer some advice?

I definitely would not question what she's wearing because she'll have been taught to see this as slut shaming (even if reasonable) and will lose trust in you before you can do anything else.
But: if she's being mainly swayed by online influencers, show her examples of the questionable side of this world, eg. the subreddit r/instagramreality, where Photoshopped pictures are placed next to candids, Molly-Mae having some surgical procedures undone, the financial cost of being very high maintenance looks-wise, nepotism in acting and modelling, etc. Not sanctimoniously but 'thought you would find this interesting'.

If certain films or TV shows are an influence then you could also try to find some online commentary, critical of misogyny, to share with her (YouTube is great for this). Make her interests a discussion topic rather than something to lead her away from.

I wouldn't call it radfem praxis or anything, but something that made me less insecure about my body while still enjoying fashion was the Kibbe body typing system (from the 80s, but popular again at the moment, see r/Kibbe). Although there are problematic aspects, the idea is that every woman is built differently but can still look beautiful/fashionable in her own way - there's no ideal body. That might be a good way of leading her away from that insecurity while still keeping the focus on her interests.
Good luck!

If it were a relative of mine I'd have to say in honesty that while I support her right to express herself however she wishes I wouldn't be happy to contribute to an industry that perpetuates female insecurity and the sexual objectification of women. What women choose to do in relation to that industry is their choice, but I have a right to choose not to give my money to anything that doesn't sit right with me.

We can absolutely respect women who make different choices to us, but they need to respect ours too, regardless of age or current fashions. Turn up the Alison Moyet.

@KimikosNightmare it's ridiculous to post a Rolling Stone cover of the Spice Girls to 'prove' that 16-year-olds were dressing that way. They weren't. Of course they weren't. Normal 16-year-olds are not pop stars dressed for publicity photos.

Why are young women making these choices?
Because they've been told to. The pressure on young women today to look a certain way - and that "way" has been directed through pornified channels - and behave in certain ways is immense.

Things were bad enough when I was young but it's so much worse now. There are the mixed messages of "be yourself" followed by "if you don't look and act like everyone else you'll be damned for eternity" which are dire enough, but the determination to sexualise young women is beyond the pale.

Porn is part of it I think, along with the baffling worship of influencers and those whose life goal is to appear on Love Island, and some/many16 year olds don't want to be left out of this circus because they think there's nothing else for them.

Wanting a boob job at 16 is incredibly normal
In what way is this normal? If a 16 year old thinks it's normal then I'd like to ask her what's lead her to form that view and what difference she thinks breast enlargement would make to her life now and in future.

Women are told we need to look a certain way or behave in certain ways as a misogynystic and patriarchical suggestion to distract us and allow the very skewed status quo. It takes courage and determination to say fuck this shit, I'm going to live my life in my way, but the beauty of confidence in oneself can be much more potent than anything that comes from a bottle or tube.

The reality of having large breasts is nothing like the (male) fantasy.

They're nothing but a nuisance - clothes don't fit properly, you spent a fortune on bras, you have to wear a bra 24/7.

I would dissuade anyone from having a breast enlargement, regardless of their age.

@NoWireHangersEver

Hi OP, I'm just a few years older than your niece so can maybe offer some advice?

I definitely would not question what she's wearing because she'll have been taught to see this as slut shaming (even if reasonable) and will lose trust in you before you can do anything else.
But: if she's being mainly swayed by online influencers, show her examples of the questionable side of this world, eg. the subreddit r/instagramreality, where Photoshopped pictures are placed next to candids, Molly-Mae having some surgical procedures undone, the financial cost of being very high maintenance looks-wise, nepotism in acting and modelling, etc. Not sanctimoniously but 'thought you would find this interesting'.

If certain films or TV shows are an influence then you could also try to find some online commentary, critical of misogyny, to share with her (YouTube is great for this). Make her interests a discussion topic rather than something to lead her away from.

I wouldn't call it radfem praxis or anything, but something that made me less insecure about my body while still enjoying fashion was the Kibbe body typing system (from the 80s, but popular again at the moment, see r/Kibbe). Although there are problematic aspects, the idea is that every woman is built differently but can still look beautiful/fashionable in her own way - there's no ideal body. That might be a good way of leading her away from that insecurity while still keeping the focus on her interests.
Good luck!

THIS is a brilliant post, and exactly how to get through to your niece rather than pushing her away.

Some of the suggestions about sending her books on the history of the suffragettes, or telling her you'll be keeping her birthday money to donate to feminism causes are likely to alienate her to you AND to your actual point. She will see it as an attack.

@Orf1abc

Sixteen year olds were wearing the same in the nineties.

You're being incredibly judgmental of other women's choices.

No, they were not. I was 16 in the 90s. I lived in a city. I went out loads to pubs and nightclubs every weekend and never, ever saw anyone wearing anything like that.

I was 16 in 1990, and I agree with pps that the general 'look' in the 90s was far more natural and covered up.

You don't have to look far for the reason - no social media. People didn't spend their nights out taking selfies. The whole exaggerated look that's popular now - slug eyebrows, huge false nails, balloon lips - is so that people show up in photographs.

Back in the 90s, if you took a camera along with you (not a usual thing to do unless it was a special occasion such as a birthday), it would be weeks later that you saw the pics, once you'd finished the film and got it developed, by which time it was too late to care that you looked washed-out and eyebrow-less in the glare of the flash (and half the pictures would be blurred or would have your head cut off anyway).

Digital cameras were coming in by the late 90s but the resolution was flatteringly low in the early ones.

I suppose she is only 16. We all probably had some daft plans back then.

I’d just send a gift - maybe a voucher for a nail bar or something like that if she is into that sort of thing (or a huge, lumpy jumper ).

I was in the park yesterday and a couple walked by - the woman was in a tight t shirt and had (pretty obviously) had a boob job. To me looked very unnatural and they just didn’t move (no jiggle at all). Not a great look (but hey I’m a 50-something woman so not my type of thing at all). It reminded me of the breastfeeding days (hard swollen boobs).

I'd just keep quiet. No doctor will perform that surgery while she is so young and developing and by the time she has stopped growing, she'll be more mature and can make an informed choice.

@Naunet

Sixteen year olds were wearing the same in the nineties

No they weren’t. I never once saw a 16 year old wearing a jacket with nothing under it, or a top that exposed the bottom of their breasts. Spots bra and combats, yeah, maybe.
And actually it’s ok to ask why young women are making these choices, it doesn’t happen in a vacuum.

In the 90s/00s we wore blazers with our bras showing a la Posh Spice. No boobs hanging out everywhere!

Well you said it yourself: Love Island. The cross over top look is big this year and most of the girls have had boob jobs.

That said, I totally rocked the sports bra and combats look in the early 2000s so it’s nothing new 😂

Unless you have a very generous or large family,the time she’s saved up for a boob job using christmas and birthday money, she’ll probably have grown up a bit and can use the money for something better.

Something no one has touched on here so i will, there's a lot of thinly veiled fatphobia/body shaming in the way people view revealing dressing....

Skinny kate moss child looking things = fine

Curvy woman with tits jiggling about! god forbid,, people tolerate skimpy l
clothes on women until they look like curvy women then its unacceptable.

Hi, does she want a boob job as she is completely flat chested and wants to feel feminine and have some average size boobs, or is she after the love island type boob job?

Something no one has touched on here so i will, there's a lot of thinly veiled fatphobia/body shaming in the way people view revealing dressing....

I don't think it's fat phobia. I have E-cup boobs - it's simply a fact that a low-cut top in any given size will show more of my boobs than the same size top on a person who is an A-cup.

Similarly, I have a very flat bum - even narrow-cut bikini pants cover it completely. Someone with a full, round bum would have their bum cheeks on show in the same size pants.

But the kind of clothes being referenced here are those designed to maximise the bare flesh on show, regardless of size. This isn't about big boobs inevitably showing some cleavage and wobbling a bit - it's about tops that are slashed to the waist with no sides at all, and similar.

It is depressing. Buy her a book token

@Orf1abc

Sixteen year olds were wearing the same in the nineties.

You're being incredibly judgmental of other women's choices.

So do we not discuss why women choose things that cause them injury, pain and physically restrict them? I thought discussing why women were making these choices was basic feminism. Fuck it then, bring back foot binding. I'm going to go get my labia chopped up to look like a star. I'm so empowered.

@PasstheBucket89

Something no one has touched on here so i will, there's a lot of thinly veiled fatphobia/body shaming in the way people view revealing dressing....

Skinny kate moss child looking things = fine

Curvy woman with tits jiggling about! god forbid,, people tolerate skimpy l
clothes on women until they look like curvy women then its unacceptable.

I think there is more policing of certain body types. I've noticed black women definitely get called out more for dancing/ dressing in a way that's not considered pornographic when white women do it. It makes it uncomfortable to discuss these things as people will have their own biases. But I do think we should (keeping though things in mind) still discuss the hypersexualization of women.

@NoGenderPleaseImBritish yes! thankyou for articulating that better than me, the comment about Cardi b, Megan Thee Stallion didnt escape me either,

theres something to unpack there but it probably not the time,

My friends daughter had a breast reduction. At 17 and a D cup because she didn’t “ look” like a dancer and felt stupid in dance clothes.. She was a student so dance wasn’t even an actual career. I mean how do you even start with that level of indoctrination. Proper surgery because you don’t fit some stupid ideal of what a dancer looks like.

Of course they have grown back and she dances just fine as size 12/14.

As an aside you could your boobs out regardless of size in the 80’s because topless sunbathing was cool and what the privileged did.Nothing to do with sex. Men didn’t want to appear sad, uncool or poor so wouldn’t stare. Genuinely emaciating not being leered at for having natural boobs ganging out .So sad we’ve regressed to push ups, fake boobs and looking done.
.

In the 90s youth cultures were sexist in their own ways but none ever required the time and energy commitment devoted to the high maintenance, expensive, physically limiting and hypersexualised shite that teenage girls are expected to get into now. I can’t stand how porn culture is everywhere and combined with social media it’s straight up damaging. How could it possibly be empowering or about a ‘choice’ for anyone who is 16 years old? These are just impressionable kids.

There was a discussion of this on the Love Island thread, when Hugo said that he didn't like 'fake' and was absolutely excoriated by the female Islanders who had had boob jobs.

Only one of girls (to use the show's terms, where all the contestants are girls or boys) had had no work at all. One of them who really went off the deep end was on about the awful pressure she felt and how her parents had given her a boob job for her 18th birthday . The boy had to apologise for being so insensitive as to say what his preference is.

Would the girl have been better served if her parents helped her with her self-esteem and body image, rather than funding surgery?

I agree OP.

I think it’s especially hard for teenage girls now. While in the past there was sexism around expectations for how women should look. It’s just so much worse now with social media and the need to be validated with likes. As well as other regressive nonsense surrounding gender and identity.

Looking at role models for young girls is depressing. It’s sadly one reason I feel it’s easier to have a son than daughter.

@AuntieStella

There was a discussion of this on the Love Island thread, when Hugo said that he didn't like 'fake' and was absolutely excoriated by the female Islanders who had had boob jobs.

Only one of girls (to use the show's terms, where all the contestants are girls or boys) had had no work at all. One of them who really went off the deep end was on about the awful pressure she felt and how her parents had given her a boob job for her 18th birthday . The boy had to apologise for being so insensitive as to say what his preference is.

Would the girl have been better served if her parents helped her with her self-esteem and body image, rather than funding surgery?

Yep

The money could have gone towards some therapy.

The boob job clearly didn’t have any effect on her self esteem for her to be so upset by one person’s opinion on fake boobs.