Wayne couzens pleads guilty to the murder of Sarah Everard

[MotionActivatedDog]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57774597

[MotionActivatedDog]

“He was never later for work” just doesn’t cut it.

[NiceGerbil]

OP no work reference is going to say, some of his colleagues called him the rapist.

You must know that really?

[MotionActivatedDog]

No- what I’m saying is the met need to dig a bit deeper than the standard reference.

[NiceGerbil]

Interview the family like mi5?

How?

I know it would be great if they could weed out men who are sex offenders.

But if they've never been arrested. Or reported. If their work and family have no idea...

I mean it won't help. It won't work.

And with things as they are, it would be an outrageous suggestion.

What needs to happen is for all sex offences to be taken seriously and recorded. Encouragement to report, however trivial.

Then there would be a record and then they could say nope.

[MotionActivatedDog]

If their work and family have no idea..

But his word did have an idea. That’s my point.

[MotionActivatedDog]

Work*

[MotionActivatedDog]

And actually- he had been reported. For driving with his bottom half naked. They just failed to take any action. And I didn’t mention interviewing family

[NiceGerbil]

That's down to the police- they had the report on record. They didn't investigate that or some other reports.

I'm not sure how this is related to previous employer references? I think he was in the army before the police.

I think I must be missing something! Maybe we are at cross purposes. What extra vetting/ employer refs were you thinking of?

[BrandineDelRoy]

Someone in authority has to have known it was him exposing himself in 2015 considerably before now or else it wouldn't have suddenly come to light in 2021. Someone ignored it.

[PearPickingPorky]

This is the problem with background checks.

More than 99% of rapists get away with it (only 1.7% of reported rapes end in prosecution, and we know most women don't even report, because what's the point). Things like sexual assault, choking women during "sex", sexual harassment, flashing, voyeurism, domestic abuse, and other sex crimes, we know that 99% of perpetrators won't have been convicted or reported for any of these either, but that each perp will most likely be a serial offender. And that most offenders will have friends and colleagues in his circle who know he is a sex offender.

But no background checks will pick up on this.

What other crimes are there in society where 99% get away with it, and even though people know the guy is doing it nobody minds or says anything, so they are allowed to just carry on, escalating in seriousness, indefinitely?

We need a better way of dealing with male sex offenders.

[MotionActivatedDog]

He was in the nuclear constabulary. Background checks won’t pick up stuff like him using prostitutes or sexual harassment outside of work that aren’t reported. That’s not what I’m talking about. But his nickname as “the rapist” was in his job! An official capacity. His colleagues named him that because he made female colleagues so uncomfortable. There is no way his seniors weren’t aware of this. (But clearly took no action to remove him ) there are processes available there to make that a matter of record. Employers need to act responsibly. It should have been officially on his record that this happened. So that’s the kind of thing that needs to be accessible and accessed by the met when vetting.

[BrandineDelRoy]

@MotionActivatedDog

He was in the nuclear constabulary. Background checks won’t pick up stuff like him using prostitutes or sexual harassment outside of work that aren’t reported. That’s not what I’m talking about. But his nickname as “the rapist” was in his job! An official capacity. His colleagues named him that because he made female colleagues so uncomfortable. There is no way his seniors weren’t aware of this. (But clearly took no action to remove him ) there are processes available there to make that a matter of record. Employers need to act responsibly. It should have been officially on his record that this happened. So that’s the kind of thing that needs to be accessible and accessed by the met when vetting.

If authorities knew he "cavorted" with prostitutes and more, wouldn't that make him subject to extortion from a foreign power? He was guarding nuclear facilities and diplomats.

[MotionActivatedDog]

I’m not sure if authorities knew of his involvement with prostitutes.

[BrandineDelRoy]

@MotionActivatedDog

I’m not sure if authorities knew of his involvement with prostitutes.

True. He should have been arrested in 2015. 😕

[MotionActivatedDog]

Absolutely. The investigation into the police’s failure to act will be interesting.

[PearPickingPorky]

@MotionActivatedDog

I’m not sure if authorities knew of his involvement with prostitutes.

Even if they did, it's yet another crime against women that gets shrugged off. So nothing would be done even if it was known.

[BobbinThreadbare123]

You do get security vetted for the CNC. It might be SC level, but if you hold certain roles it'll be Developed Vetting, in which case character references are taken.

[NiceGerbil]

He had at least 3 reports to police of indecent exposure before this.

None were investigated.

If the police were doing their job then that would have certainly reduced the risk of further crimes/ or stopped him.

[BrandineDelRoy]

@NiceGerbil

He had at least 3 reports to police of indecent exposure before this.

None were investigated.

If the police were doing their job then that would have certainly reduced the risk of further crimes/ or stopped him.

I think the 2015 incident has to have been investigated at a level to at least have identified him; otherwise, we wouldn't know about it now.

[NiceGerbil]

I dunno check the news reports.

It's common knowledge that police don't investigate stuff even when they have I dunno. Name address car reg etc etc.

Have you read it?

Why the confidence about what 'must' have happened? Out of interest.

[NiceGerbil]

You honestly believe the police investigate everything?

I mean. They don't. It's in the news all the time.

You assume they must have investigated to have a name? Why? Crimes with loads of details don't get investigated.

So many people seem so confident in the police despite... The constant reports about various reports about them being rubbish.

[BrandineDelRoy]

@NiceGerbil

You honestly believe the police investigate everything?

I mean. They don't. It's in the news all the time.

You assume they must have investigated to have a name? Why? Crimes with loads of details don't get investigated.

So many people seem so confident in the police despite... The constant reports about various reports about them being rubbish.

I meant investigated in terms of having his name. I think it's worse that someone in authority had his name and did nothing with it than if no one made any effort to identify him in 2015 at all. I was trying to be supportive of your observation.

[NiceGerbil]

Not sure of chronology but if it's this one

'Kent Police has confirmed the indecent exposure complaint in June 2015 was made by a man who reported seeing a man – alleged to be Couzens – driving a car while naked from the waist down. No arrests were made.'

They had his numberplate so not tricky.

His numberplate was also given to the police about the indecent exposure a few days before the murder.

I suppose you have s point. They had enough info to be able to say now, yes all these incidents were him.

But even though they obviously knew who it was, else they wouldn't be able to say yeah these were all him. No action was taken about the incidents.

AND I assume they weren't linked.

But bloody hell if they can confidently say yes these were all him now, then they must have been linked before? Given that they must have had his name...

In which case bloody hell.

[nosafeguardingadults]

Sorry for posting cos bit away from thread point but please can people reassure me that it's ok for me to post about my negative experiences with not police but other organisations meant to help victims of domestic and sexual violence. Its been battle for help that's literally eating me inside driving me insane and it feels like torture to be too scared to post. I don't think I'll ever get through it all and feels almost physical need to speak about it. I can't ask for help or advice if can't say about what happened.

Sorry not explaining properly. I feel same like people here about police issues. Feel like they need to be known about or won't ever get better but scared cos someone once told me to not say anything that might put women off getting help. Feel sick like bad dream when help goes wrong or lets you down but then not allowed to say anything. Women maybe put off asking police for help by some threads but you allowed to still speak about the problems. I can't explain how much feel I need to highlight the other issues for victims cos it's so cruel when you put your trust in places and people meant to help and then if problems and they let you down, you're not allowed to say anything. Sorry again. Please can someone tell me it's ok if I speak about the bad experiences cos as important for women as police issues and also don't know how I get help if I can't say what went wrong. Sorry again.

[NumberTheory]

@nosafeguardingadults
There's no ban on describing your experience of poor service that I know of. If it's about an organization that has helped lots of women then there will probably be other posters who will post their own, positive, experience to balance, or possibly someone who can explain why things might not work out well. So you might find there are people who push back a bit against your narrative, but I would hope they would be supportive in doing that, not just dismissing your experience. If organizations are failing victims, you're right, it is important to talk about it.

It would probably be best to start a separate thread on the Feminism:Chat board rather than doing it on this thread about Wayne Couzen.