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Feminism: chat

Britney Spears and Conservatorships

152 replies

WotgunShedding · 23/06/2021 22:56

This is horrifying. She’s asking for a judge to reconsider the conservatorship and the details of how little autonomy she has is awful.

“I have an IUD in my body right now that won’t let me have a baby and my conservators won’t let me go to the doctor to take it out.”

How is this allowed?

OP posts:
OliverBabish · 24/06/2021 14:58

I think the issue in the US is that doctors don’t operate in exactly the same way they do here, because over there, they are paid. I think that transactional element of the relationship leaves it wide open to the prescribed treatment not being in the best interest of the patient. E.g. Michael Jackson having his pain meds addiction fed by his own personal doctor

I would be concerned that any psychiatrist worth their salt would think that this treatment of Britney is acceptable. It’s not. Doesn’t matter if she’s high as a kite most of the time, she still deserves basic freedoms.

LemonSwan · 24/06/2021 15:07

I think thats very insightful OliverBabish.

Perhaps Britney should move to the UK.

Rinoachicken · 24/06/2021 15:10

Agree @OliverBabish

QueenBee52 · 24/06/2021 15:21

it's incredible how many posters think this Singers treatment is appropriate and worse acceptable 😳

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 24/06/2021 15:22

Excellent points OliverBabish.

You only have to look at MJ, Prince etc to see how morals aren't always forefront in some of the HCP's minds.

OvaHere · 24/06/2021 15:28

Perhaps Britney should move to the UK.

Sadly she couldn't. She apparently can't even go for a coffee without permission.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 24/06/2021 15:38

Listening to her read her essay- I thought she sounded completely coherent- if understandably nervous. She sounded far more grown up and 'real' than I've ever heard her sound before. She wasn't rambling, she was well prepared for something that most people would find daunting.

She didn't sound like someone who doesn't want to engage with therapy or medication. I don't blame her though for one bit for being wary of endless psyche evaluations- she must feel she's been gaslit and abused by those around her who have forced her to be constantly evaluated.

I think it's clear she needs to be listened to and taken seriously. She is not the same woman who was obviously very unwell in 2008. If she hadn't made any kind of recovery from that point, how was it possible for her to continue with her career? The abuse by her own family is appalling.

She may still need medication, therapy, and support in other areas of her life. But that does not mean it's proportionate for every single aspect of her life to be controlled and for this conservatorship- I don't believe she has no capacity. I read she has 30% custody of her sons (and actually I'm sure that this was reduced because of her dad's behaviour towards one of her sons). If she were that unwell, would this even be possible?

This conservatorship is clearly making her more unwell and I'm convinced if she has decent people and appropriate support- and control over her own life- she will be far happier and I'm pretty sure her mental health would only improve.

Bluntness100 · 24/06/2021 15:48

I also agree, she sounds far more grown up and mature in terms of her tone of voice than she does on any of small videos she releases where she is very child like in her speech.

Some of what she says is understandable, Ie if she’s signed for a tour she needs to do it, you can’t just back out. The management company could indeed sue, that’s rhe same for any artist. If Madonna agreed to do a tour then cancelled she’d get sued too. The question is was britney able to sign when she agreed to do it? Did she have the capacity? Did she agree? Why doesn’t she know you can’t just pull a tour?

She’s clearly reading from a script as she says, but she sounds very mature and with it when she speaks.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 24/06/2021 15:59

Some of what she says is understandable, Ie if she’s signed for a tour she needs to do it, you can’t just back out. The management company could indeed sue, that’s rhe same for any artist. If Madonna agreed to do a tour then cancelled she’d get sued too. The question is was britney able to sign when she agreed to do it? Did she have the capacity? Did she agree? Why doesn’t she know you can’t just pull a tour?

I don't think that Britney lacked capacity to sign up for tours at that point. I think she was forced to sign by her management/family. Did she have capacity- I think most likely- was she being exploited and made to do something she didn't want to do- probably under threat of losing yet more freedom etc- yes I think so. It seems like she has had literally no say over her life whatsoever. I cannot see what the possible justification can be for her having no say on many, many aspects of her life. She needs medical support and therapy. She most likely needs support in managing her finances- which I think could be reasonably done and an arrangement put together that actually both protects her but allows her more control. She needs to not have to work if she doesn't want to do it. Live where she wants, how she wants. I honestly think she can still have whatever support is necessary whilst still being given more control of her life.

UhtredRagnarson · 24/06/2021 16:05

What are they protecting? Because it’s not her personal well-being. More like they are protecting their own financial interests. She is a financial asset to them, and that’s all.

Not sure if it’s ok to say this and I’m happy for MN to delete if if they need to but if I was to guess what was being protected I would say her father’s liberty. He is keeping Britney “silent” (by way of totally discrediting anything she says) for a reason.

NutellaEllaElla · 24/06/2021 17:07

I'm still reeling from this testimony. I knew stuff beforehand but hoped it was a conspiracy theory. It's so sinister and I feel so bad for her.

Charliebradbury · 24/06/2021 17:13

How can a man who isn't allowed to be around her children due to violence be deemed suitable to be her conservator?
Take out whether the conservatorship is right or wrong, why does it have to be her father? She clearly isn't happy with it being him, her children have a restraining order against him etc. Surely it should be someone independent and subject to much more scrutiny.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 24/06/2021 17:23

@Charliebradbury

How can a man who isn't allowed to be around her children due to violence be deemed suitable to be her conservator? Take out whether the conservatorship is right or wrong, why does it have to be her father? She clearly isn't happy with it being him, her children have a restraining order against him etc. Surely it should be someone independent and subject to much more scrutiny.
Exactly this. I think it's unlikely to be proportionate anyway but even if it actually were necessary, it's mind boggling that he is allowed to remain as conservator.
Absy · 24/06/2021 17:54

I watched the NYtimes documentary that came out a few months ago. I’m very similar on age to Britney. What struck me weird her whole breakdown (when she shaved her head), was actually how unsurprising it was seeing the context. She seemed to be suffering from PND, and then had the paparazzi hounding her all the time, asking her if she was allowed to see her children, chasing her. I honestly think that if I had been in that position I would have done the same.

PurpleMustang · 24/06/2021 18:24

She obviously needed help and guidance and maybe someone to take over for a while but once she was well enough to work it should of been relaxed. Its like they have separated her as a person from her as a performer and her Dad has peddled her out for all of this work to keep bringing the money in but not allowed her to be a person at all. Surely the court can't deem she can only be one or the other. And to make her had an IUD, they don't even do that is this country to women on bail for murdering her own kids. All she did was have a breakdown and needed help. She is a prisoner is her own life.

MouseyTheVampireSlayer · 24/06/2021 18:35

I don't think anyone has actually said it's right.
Just people have expressed that she clearly needs support and is not getting appropriate care.
Yes, her father should not be exploiting her, I do not think anyone has defended him.
I still think she'd be better off with impartial professional support, which is where the NHS, for all it's flaws, would be more appropriate than the us situation.

CharlieParley · 24/06/2021 19:11

I have two vulnerable relatives with a guardianship in place (our version of a conservatorship). My mother is the one who takes care of them. She also works in elderly care and has seen too many vulnerable elderly people exploited and abused by their relatives. That's why her basic principle now is that every vulnerable person should have a guardian who is independent from both the vulnerable person and their relatives. This cannot completely avoid abuse and exploitation, but it reduces opportunities for those to occur to a very low level.

Much like with Britney, the court hears from the individual to be placed under a guardianship as well as the ones making the application. If necessary a guardianship is granted, but the guardian is an employee of the state, so they cannot benefit from the vulnerable person's estate and any decisions about work or spending are made based on what is best for the vulnerable person.

What surprises me in Britney's case is that it seems upside down to me - with the guardianship in place, my relatives cannot legally enter contracts but they get to make all of the small decisions in their day-to-day lives, like going for a coffee. But Britney apparently can still sign contracts, but she is not allowed to go for coffee without permission.

And my relatives would be entirely unable to even read a statement like the one Britney read today, let alone write it.

Another relative who would have benefited from a guardianship opposed the application in court just like Britney did today. Managing to speak lucidly for maybe the only time that week. So the court rejected the necessity for a guardianship was there and refused it. That person was wholly incapable of holding down an even an unskilled, part-time temporary job, not to mention performing like Britney, but the court decreed that even if we're self-destructive, as long as we have capacity, that's a path we must be allowed to choose. It didn't end well. And it was heart breaking for us as a family. But I still agree with the judge. The capacity was there, even if the choices made were poor.

In my opinion, the court should appoint an independent conservator, employed for an appropriate salary on a temporary basis to be reevaluated in a year. Someone who cannot benefit from Britney working. Whose motivation should be to help Britney live as independently as she is able to.

Absy · 24/06/2021 19:19

What I found surprising was that all these clear conflicts of interest have been allowed by the court

  • having a family member with a history of substance abuse acting as the conservator, as well as being banned from seeing his grandchildren
  • that individual benefiting from a fee + % of royalties from the business she brought in

If she really needs a conservatorship fine, but have it as an independent professional third party who doesn’t benefit from her working. They didn’t appoint an independent conservator (who still has to work with her father) until 2019 - ten years in. I find that astounding

Bambam2019 · 24/06/2021 19:43

If she is mentally stable enough to work, then she is mentally stable enough to control the money that comes from that work.
This is horrifying. What an awful situation for her.

MouseyTheVampireSlayer · 24/06/2021 19:56

Spot on @CharlieParley. America seem to have it really ass about face. It's so open to abuse it's unbelievable that could be the state of affairs that is sanctioned by courts.

aloris · 26/06/2021 17:50

Sorry, I haven't read the full thread yet, but I wanted to ask, what is the big deal about shaving her head? Hairstyle is probably the least significant thing I can think of. Isn't it a bit of a red flag to the misogyny in our world that if a woman shaves her head this is seen somehow as a sign of mental instability?

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/06/2021 18:44

@aloris

Sorry, I haven't read the full thread yet, but I wanted to ask, what is the big deal about shaving her head? Hairstyle is probably the least significant thing I can think of. Isn't it a bit of a red flag to the misogyny in our world that if a woman shaves her head this is seen somehow as a sign of mental instability?

It wasn't that she just appeared, happy and content, with a shaved head. She was on a very public meltdown after leaving rehab, being followed and harassed by dozens of paparazzi when she went into a salon and practically grabbed some clippers and started doing it herself. She was obviously having a mental health crisis. She went on to attack paparazzi cars with an umbrella and rant and rave. It was a very disturbing incident and nobody was helping her or protecting her even though she had bodyguards with her.

kirinm · 01/07/2021 08:43

I can't believe the court have ignored everything she said.

MotionActivatedDog · 01/07/2021 08:54

I really was expecting different news. I thought for sure the conservatorship would remain but with someone else appointed to hold the position.

Blankspace4 · 01/07/2021 11:19

What’s the news?