Britney Spears and Conservatorships

[WotgunShedding]

This is horrifying. She’s asking for a judge to reconsider the conservatorship and the details of how little autonomy she has is awful.

“I have an IUD in my body right now that won’t let me have a baby and my conservators won’t let me go to the doctor to take it out.”

How is this allowed?

@dreamingbohemian

I think the conservatorship and custody arrangements are regularly reviewed by a judge and have been kept in place?

Like @Bluntness100 I also struggle with the idea of letting people make their own way even if it's really self-destructive. That's basically what was done with Amy Winehouse, that ended in tragedy. Lots of other young women in the business have suffered incredibly too.

I have a friend currently off his meds in a bipolar episode and he is literally wrecking everything in his life. He may come out the other side but he will have nothing left. It's very hard to watch and do nothing.

BUT I think it's possible to give Britney more freedom and still keep her safe. There should be an impartial conservator.

Surely there is an in-between? My brother has been sectioned several times and has a court order in place that someone can legally enter his home and restrain him to inject his medication. That's extremely intrusive but sadly necessary, someone having control of his entire life would not be. Some people are sadly sectioned for life, but would you agree with anyone with mental illness being sterilised? Going out to work to make them $$$s still but having zero autonomy over their bodies and their lives? Quite frankly that's scary if so.

Amy Winehouse was a heroine addict, not sure how much you have been involved with a loved one with addiction, but it's not as simple as someone controlling her every movement saving her.

Her Dad earns $16,000 a month for his "work" in controlling his daughter's life. And she is allowed $2000 a month.

The judge needs to order that no money be paid to the conservator and see if the father still wants the job.

it's utterly unacceptable to suggest that because someone had a period of mental illness that it's perfectly OK to accept that they must be controlled forever. Lots of people go through a very difficult time with their mental health - many recover sufficiently to be suitably functional. It's shocking to think that having a period of psychosis dooms you forever.

It reminds me of all those women who were sent to asylums to live out their days after being diagnosed with “hysteria”

It feels like a real-life version of I care a lot and Breaking Glass.
I read the transcript in Variety and saw a vulnerable woman being taken advantage of by money-grabbing vultures.

I wonder if there are any male celebrities who have gone of the rails that have been put under a conservatorship. I’ve seen names like Courtney love, Amanda Bynes and Lindsay Lohan mentioned and think surely, there must be male equivalents out there.
My other question is why does the conservatorship have to be under a man? Couldn’t it have been under her mother? I’ve seen her mother also doesn’t agree with how the conservatorship I.e her ex husband and the Trust have managed Britney and her estate but I don’t think she has any power over the situation. Apparently she has challenged large sums of money (fees) that Britney’s estate has had to pay to the Trust. Their response was the fees was to cover marketing needed to protect Jamie Spears reputation from being tarnished by negative publicity (something along those lines). It’s all very weird.

Even if she is so unwell that this level of control of her life is required, she should be allowed to cut her father out of her life and have an impartial non-family member appointed to oversee her interests. As for forcing her to work... it's unbelievable that they've got away with that.

ButYouJustPointedToAIIOfMe
It might be the I Care A Lot that was referred referred in the thing I'd read. Is that Netflix?

I found it scary how much money some people make from this system, but if it's a drama rather rather a documentary then I might not watch it.

God, it's even worse hearing it (audio, thanks to the pp who linked it).
She speaks so quickly from her essay - trying to get it all out.
Her lawyer (who she did not choose but appears to have built some kind of rapport with) has advised her to be careful with criticism (trying to protect her from a slander lawsuit).
I wish he had helped her edit it, bullet point it and practise it first - it seems she wasn't even aware until doing it that it would be live.
Should the conservatorship be ended? Yes - her father should be out the picture now. Not sure Jodi is the right person either. Unsure of her mother or sister.
I really wish someone out there who is rich and famous in their own right, with mental health contacts of their own, could reach out and help her. Wanting to have an extended holiday/break or early retirement, wanting to have another baby (and money being wasted now could pay for a full-time nanny/aide ffs), wanting the right to private therapy of her own choosing once a week at her home - none of it seems unreasonable.

I don't think @Bluntness100 answered everyone's question of how come she's well enough to work if she's so unwell?

Not trying to goad you, but as your opinion seems to be that she must be very mentally unwell I am curious as to your take on her working in show business.

I care a lot is about a fictional unscrupulous court-appointed guardian, seizing the assets of the vulnerable elderly (who end up drugged up in care homes, deprived of their liberty and their money). It was billed as a black comedy-thriller and Rosamund Pike won a golden globe for it.
On Amazon Prime.

This is all horrible. I remember a thread about Britney on here a while ago where this was all being discussed.

What doesn't seem right to me is that ok yes she was clearly very unwell in her 20s, it would appear that she has a mental health condition and requires medication. Fine. But this happens to lots and lots of people unfortunately and they don't have their lives taken away from them. People may well have lifelong conditions that they need to learn to manage and live with but we do not section people indefinitely or take away their freedoms just because they are ill (unless there are very extreme circumstances).

She is rich. There is no reason she couldn't have been temporarily 'looked after' if you like, given treatment, therapy, medication and support to then live an independent a life as possible which she would easily have been able to pay for, for life, if needed.

It's her money. If she wants to piss it all up the wall or give it all away then quite frankly she should be free to do so as long as she's not harming anyone.

I'm horrified that she's on forced birth control. It is just wrong. Frankly if she can't consent to a pregnancy because she doesn't have the capacity to do so then she can't consent to sex, can she!! What would they do if her contraception failed, force an abortion on her?

If she is so ill and lacking capacity that she needs every angle of her life micromanaged to this extent then she is too ill to work. Which she evidently isn't. So which is it?

It's never going to be as cut and dry as just 'free Britney' after what she's been through. But something needs to be done. America, the land of the free. Yeah right!

If Kanye were female he'd be sectioned too IMO.

I have been watching the Free Britney thing in utter dismay and it is crushing to hear her speak. She has been let down.

The USA is a cesspit.

If they really, truly thought Britney was so ill, they'd press her to stop working. She can afford to!

Instead, she wants to have a sabbatical or to retire, and they won't let her.

Another thing i've always wondered is WHY is it her father who's the conservator? She's had a notoriously poor relationship with him but a good relationship with her mother.

The truth of it is that we don't know the severity of her MH condition (but as PP have said, if it's so bad, surely she can't work hard producing and executing Vegas shows etc). I suspect that her testimony of disagreeing with a dance move and the whole team disappearing into a meeting for 45 minutes and saying she's non compliant, has another side to the story. But as PP have said, the whole thing seems wildly disproportionate, far too easily abused and overly controlling of her freedom. The poor poor woman.

It was claimed it was dementia or something like that at some point. Surely if that was the case there would be an obvious deterioration by now - 13 years later?

Yes @kirinm the original court paperwork (which were available publicly) listed dementia as her condition. But dementia isn't always a diagnosis in itself it can be a catch all for a range of symptoms relating to other MH conditions.

And I agree. Early onset dementia that you'd get in your 20s would show signs of a deterioration, it's rare to have it that young and patients 'usually' go downhill reasonably quickly.

I have patients on my caseload who are really quite poorly but still manage their own lives with support from a team of professionals. None of them are coherent as Britney was yesterday, let alone able to do something as arduous as a bloody Vegas show! It should ALWAYS be the least restrictive option when it comes to mental health. I am absolutely disgusted by all of this.

@NutellaEllaElla

If Kanye were female he'd be sectioned too IMO.

I have been watching the Free Britney thing in utter dismay and it is crushing to hear her speak. She has been let down.

Entirely agree!!! I can’t think of any men under such constraints.

To the PP who asked if there’s anything like this in the UK- there is a deputyship order where a dr or qualified professional has to confirm that the patient doesn’t have capacity. The questions they ask can be really mundane, what day is it? Who is the PM? Count backwards from 10. To more in depth questions to check on short and long term memory. In the UK we also note that capacity is fluid, so you can be more “with it” and some point than others. An LPA can come into force if someone loses capacity, but even that states an attorney should facilitate the donor and just because they make a bad decision it doesn’t mean they should be ignored or that theyre wrong.

My understanding is Britney was suffering with pretty bad PND and her then (ex?) husband was refusing visitation to the kids. She was told the only way she would see her babies is if she accepted the conservatorship. There’s an interview with her cousin Ali, where they thought it would only last a month.

Also for people commenting that having a breakdown and then it haunting for you forever, Britney said similar in for the record, she said she made some mistakes and she’s paying for it for a long time. This clip is only 1.5mins and worth a watch, it’s from 2008 and it made me really upset honestly.

There’s also a bbc documentary on iPlayer but this wasn’t really well regarded by Britney fans and they thought it wasn’t well researched.

The whole situation is just desperately sad!

Thankfully it's Public...

the entire world can see this for what it is ...

Shameful

Good luck to Britney 🌸

Her father even refused permission when she requested to have her kitchen cupboards re-painted.

ButYouJustPointedToAIIOfMe
Maybe that's not what I thinking of. It doesn't sound like my cup of tea. It would probably upset me.

I agree with everything you've said on both posts @NutellaEllaElla. Kanye is a good comparison.

Her testimony doesn't sound like someone who's entirely well - the episode with the dancers doesn't seem accurate eg - but it's hard to tell whether that's as a result of her original mental health issues or just the abject frustration of being kept a prisoner unfairly for 13 years. But even despite that, I still think the conservatorship seems excessive and in the absence of very compelling, CURRENT medical evidence, it should be dissolved.

I believe the secrecy over this Order for 13 years.. will break any illusions of 'fairness' and 'privacy' for her sake...

thank goodness it's NOW public..

the world is now watching... and judging.

I remember reading Frances Farmer's autobiography when I was a teenager and being horrified at what she went through. Some real comparisons to be drawn with Britney Spears' situation 80 odd years later.