Please would MNHQ clarify the rules?

[ifIwerenotanandroid]

Would @MNHQ (is that the right username?) please clarify the new situation? There's confusion & I think it will save everybody time if there's clarification.

As I understand it, this board is for any discussion of feminist topics where the topic & discussion does not include any mention of gender critical or trans issues. Therefore, nobody partaking in a discussion here can say what their definition of terms is. All we can do is talk about women & men. As soon as anyone says, e.g. 'inclusive' or 'ALL women' or 'biological females', the thread gets transferred to 'Sex & Gender Debate'.

Again as I understand it, the board split was about discussion topics & what's said within discussions. The split was neither of the following:

(a) all 'inclusive' feminists can post here & in 'Sex & Gender Debate', but 'gender critical' feminists can only post in 'Sex & Gender Debate'.
Rather, the board split is not a split between users, but between discussions, with the same rules applying to everyone.

(b) 'Feminist Chat' is now for the sole use of 'inclusive' feminists, who will be able to discuss those 'inclusive' views to their heart's content. As soon as a user posts any disagreement with those 'inclusive' views & definitions, the thread will be moved to 'Sex & Gender Debate'.
Rather, as I've said, nobody can attempt to define terms & impose those on anyone else. Anyone who attempts to do that will cause the thread to be moved to 'Sex & Gender Debate'.

From a discussion yesterday, it was apparent that some users view the board split as meaning (a) or (b) above. Clarification would be very helpful.

I'd also like to know whether penalties will apply to a user who causes a thread to be moved, by posting definitions or assumptions of terms. It's been suggested that Dark Forces of Misogyny might try to scupper any discussion on this board which is getting somewhere, by deliberately causing it to be moved. I don't know how big a threat that is.

Help please, MNHQ!

The majority of posters who want to discuss feminism are adult human females. We care about women’s rights. I don’t actually have any irons in the so called ‘trans rights’ fire, except when women’s rights are being trampled on. So calling it that makes no sense at all. There is an LGBT section for that.

I'd still like the ability to block or mute posters..

I think that's called cancel culture

[quote ifIwerenotanandroid]@MotherOffCod

I really recommend being more temperate in your language.

And do please read my OP & Michael's reply.[/quote]
I think you just told me to be more kind? Just saying.

Also I’d love to know what you considered intemperate language there.

I could list all the insults and names and attacks directed at me and many other non GC poster on the other board, but really we all know them so why bother.

Honestly, if you found my post so objectionable, please do report to mnhq.

But it wasn’t even remotely close to the sort of “robust challenge” dished out daily for years to non GC posters on the board previously known as FWR.

It's worth noting that motherofcod's post has not been deleted.

@aliasundercover

It's a ;its;e annoying having to view two boards when I'm interested in all the topics. If there was a 'view all' option I'd have no complaints.

How about it MN?

That would help. It would essentially put things back to how they were for people who don't want a split.

I'd definitely like a quick link between the two, if possible, or a breadcrumb trail back to the overarching sub-board (although I don't think that's a structure they currently use?)

I really recommend being more temperate in your language

Really? Policing tone?
The hypocrisy on here is sometimes staggering.

"The word literally gets misused so often these days."

I mentally substitute "Let's pretend..."

@FeckTheMagicDragon

I had the original (real) FWR bookmarked and my link now goes to Feminism: sex and gender. I don’t often post, and rarely start threads but if I do I will be starting them in that bookmarked link as for me sex is impossible to separate from my feminism. It’s the first place I look on Mumsnet and then I go look in active threads. I’m not trying myself in knots trying to switch between that and a fluffy chat section.

Same. Although my bookmark takes me to 'Feminist Chat', it is fiddly and annoying to have to click between two boards to read all the feminist news.

What even did motherofcod say that was so objectionable, seriously?
It doesn't even constitute a personal attack, it's not aimed at anyone in particular

A 'view all' would be brilliant. That would allow those who want to screen out the 'sex and gender' topics to do so, while the rest of us (I think the large majority) would be able to use the board as one without division or footering back and forth between them.

@Quaggars

What even did motherofcod say that was so objectionable, seriously? It doesn't even constitute a personal attack, it's not aimed at anyone in particular

It's rude, aggressive, goady and unnecessary. But I'm pretty sure you already know that.

@ArabellaScott

A 'view all' would be brilliant. That would allow those who want to screen out the 'sex and gender' topics to do so, while the rest of us (I think the large majority) would be able to use the board as one without division or footering back and forth between them.

Yes agree with this, would make the site much easier to use.

Oh, as if.
I'm sorry, but I find it absolutely staggering that a post like that is called rude and aggressive etc when all it did was call out what happens on here.
When all the times before ACTUAL personal attacks and pile ons have been waved away as '' hurty feelz''' ''Well I've never seen anything but loveliness from posters, are you sure it's not just you' ' type posts.
It's unbelievable but at the same time it's sadly not.

Just tagging in @MichaelMumsnet in case he'd like to see the questions about links etc. (Please don't derail with further bickering and off-topic "What fwr posters are like", eh?)

@ArabellaScott

A 'view all' would be brilliant. That would allow those who want to screen out the 'sex and gender' topics to do so, while the rest of us (I think the large majority) would be able to use the board as one without division or footering back and forth between them.

I think this is a good idea too.

A 'view all posts' option would be great

I agree - toggling between the two is a bit of a faff and I think I miss some threads as a result.

I didn’t see a need for the separation but if it means more women are willing to engage in feminist discussions, fair enough.

However, so many of us came here for the chat and were convinced by the informed and well researched posts by many GC women on FWR that we too let go of #BeKind TWAW and embraced a gender critical position. If all that is hived away in its own little section, how will more casual FWR users come across it? “Radicalised By Mumsnet” has been a positive force for U.K. feminism and instrumental in the continuing fight for women’s rights.

@LizzieSiddal

Hi *@MichaelMumsnet* I’ve seen quite a few people commenting on how frustrating it is to go between the two new sections. Is it possible to have a one click step, which allows you to go between the two feminism sections?

I used to spend most of my time just in Feminism chat and was able to access all the threads. Now it’s clumsy to navigate between the two sections.

This would make things much better.

If all that is hived away in its own little section, how will more casual FWR users come across it?
I feel more positive than that now. I think that, if some posters have previously been put off even visiting FWR, then the new look Feminist Chat board might encourage wider engagement, and then the gulag topics are only a short step away..... FWR Chat could become the new gateway drug

@Floisme

A 'view all posts' option would be great

And from the POV of starting a new thread, it shouldn't matter that if you were in a : All view (i believe this idea would be applicable elsewhere eg Education) - you can start a thread while using threads I'm on or watching, just need to fill in a board name. So that wouldn't be a technical showstopper.

@Floisme

If all that is hived away in its own little section, how will more casual FWR users come across it? I feel more positive than that now. I think that, if some posters have previously been put off even visiting FWR, then the new look Feminist Chat board might encourage wider engagement, and then the gulag topics are only a short step away..... FWR Chat could become the new gateway drug

Readers of the Feminism Chat board will at some point alight on a thread which magically teleports them here when it gets moved.

People new to MN will hopefully look into both.

I've started a thread in Site Stuff requesting a : all option

Would it be feasible to have a : All view? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4279241-would-it-be-feasible-to-have-a-board-name-all-view

Thanks Errol - posted.

@Tanith

"The word literally gets misused so often these days."

I mentally substitute "Let's pretend..."

Lovely jibe action here.

Which literally are you disputing?

The one where Justine her very self said thousands of mners had hidden the board, or the one where users have been complaining about hostility on FWR for years?

FYI both those are literally true. No hyperbole, no pretending.

The denial of facts is usually frowned upon in GC circles so it’s surprising to see it happening with these apparently inconvenient facts.