Sport

[Tibtom]

Once girls reach their teens they disproportionately drop sport. How can we encourage physical fitness in girls, especially in light of lack of changing facilities that respect a teenage girls acute need for privacy and dignity, or the lack of fair competition including any chance of success at higher leves?

Good point about the competition side of things. Loads of clubs require a high level of commitment and use competition as the reason. But what about the people who don’t want to compete? They’re often pushed out, one way or another.

It’s a little bit like choirs. For a long time all choirs, near enough, were auditioned, and competition focussed. But in recent years there’s been a shift towards singing for health and enjoyment, even for “non singers”.

It’s a much nicer environment for lots of people who’d previously been excluded from singing with others.

Would be great to see sports moving that way more. Park run is a great example of this already.

@FeistySheep I was wondering about competitiveness and found this interesting research -

hbr.org/2019/11/research-how-men-and-women-view-competition-differently

It's US based, so the results might not be the same in the UK, but interesting, I thought.

I could say why,but I don't think it's allowed on this board now.
The only sport that my dd's enjoy,is the only one where men and women compete on an equal basis,requires skill rather than strength,most of the time,and does not require getting changed in a mixed changing room,or wearing skimpy clothing.

That's very interesting @AssassinatedBeauty - it is obviously a huge generalisation, but if it is the case that women are more likely to enjoy non-competitive sport, then maybe PE should put equal focus on the fun element, rather than only on competition (whether that's with other people or by emphasis on continually improving personal bests etc). MotherOffCod's point about parkrun is a good start. I would love to see more team games type sports clubs advertised as non-competitive though.

@NumberTheory

If the aim is to increase female participation in physical exercise and increase fitness for health reasons, I think we need to move away from seeing competitive sport a “real” sport. It just isn’t what the majority of women do who get into sport. Things like Parkrun, swimming, gym classes and martial arts have pretty high female participation and they have significant non-competitive ways of fully engaging.

I think what is really needed is an increase in social aspects of sports - so perhaps sports classes at school with long enough to get changed comfortably afterwards and then sit around watching a sports performance while drinking milk/water eating fruit and commenting on whats happening on screen in a constructive way - geared towards the girls having a laugh together. More clubs with time built in for friendships to blossom (travel time on a mini-bus can be good for this). Clubs/teams doing things together that aren’t the sport where people can talk. And to keep women once they’ve had children, a lot more crèche facilities at a reasonable price at leisure centres that allow women to stay on in the cafe with friends after.

Boys and men use sports as a way to socialise - they go to the park and hang out while they play footie/skate/etc. They go to the pub after the five-a-side friendly or their 20km bike ride. Changing our culture so that sport is something women do with their friends and aren’t afraid to take time out of their family life in order to do with their friends would go a long way to making it something they will keep up more in life. I do think some honest education in school about the way their bodies and fitness levels will change and how to get into fitness once they’re unfit would be good knowledge for everyone to leave school with.

If we want to increase female participation in competitive sport I think the actions that need to be taken would be very different - especially increased funding for girls’ teams from a younger age, better coaching & facilities, greater lauding of female athletes in school and the media. But I also think it will take more resources to encourage girls’ participation than it would to encourage boys because there are virtually no sports that women would beat men in (there are a few endurance ones) and that is always going to lead to disparaging comparisons from some that will put some women off. Obviously there are a lot of women who relish competitive sport (I certainly did) but it really doesn’t seem to resonate with women the way it does with boys and that might not be a socialisation thing.

I like this post a lot. I think at grassroots and education level, this is all really key.

At a professional level, the two big issues for me are a) salaries/sponsorship and b) the way some men seem to be exploiting the current rules around The Thing We Cannot Name to elbow their way into women’s competitive sport.

I think it's less that women and girls enjoy competition less, but that we aren't encouraged to enjoy competition more. It also has to be said that girls like very different things that aren't necessarily offered by the school. Rock climbing, skating, gymnastics. Schools either aren't skilled enough to support these, they aren't set up to accommodate them or they don't consider them.
In primary we do a lot of introducing children to 'niche' sports. The rationale is that the one off rock climbing wall, ice skating session or even quidditch game (yes, really) will lead the child to branch off and join outside clubs.
It also gives girls the chance to thrive as they are often facing it with as much experience as the boys, which for sports like football, basketball and rugby is very much not the case and the girls start off as a disadvantage.

In primary we do a lot of introducing children to 'niche' sports. The rationale is that the one off rock climbing wall, ice skating session or even quidditch game (yes, really) will lead the child to branch off and join outside clubs.
It also gives girls the chance to thrive as they are often facing it with as much experience as the boys, which for sports like football, basketball and rugby is very much not the case and the girls start off as a disadvantage.

Great idea but how does the money work , who eg pays for the sessions and transport?

I think a lot of young girls continue with netball and hockey and then into adulthood as the sports tend to be very sociable and offer a wide range of competitive opportunities or just for fun. It's also good to see young women (teenagers) get into coaching and officiating, it's a good way to earn money. Netball is obviously the only predominant female sport though.

I think sports should be split into single sex far earlier. My daughters both loved sport as long as they had an idea in their heads that they were fantastic at it. As soon as they began to see the sports teachers at school, usually men who ran the football club, favouring football loving boys and ignoring slightly slower, though probably more flexible girls, they started dropping out. If sports remains mixed sex, it should place as much emphasis on balance and flexibility as it does on speed and strength, so that girls don’t feel it’s pointless for them to take part. If pe involves girls playing football, why can’t pe also involve boys doing dance and yoga?

@334bu primaries get a boatload of funding for sports and healthy lifestyles. It's one of the few areas we aren't under budgeted in. The funding used to go to secondary schools, with the provisio that they worked with primaries to get that age group active. They didn't deliver it and a review decided the primaries were best of with the funding.
It works differently from school to school, but I have seen it spent as:

Outside specialists like dance teachers doing a themed week
Outside specialists training regular teachers in activities/sports
Hiring equipment such as rock climbing walls, quidditch equipment and staff to run it
Buying or going in with other local schools on transport
Creating active spaces such as outside equipment, maintaining fields etc.
Extra swimming lessons for Year 6s who can't swim (government says they should be able to by the time they leave primary)
Equipment or paying staff for after school clubs.

IMO the funding is absolutely amazing if channelled correctly. I am fortunate enough to be in a school where it mostly is. I've been in schools where it's been used very ineffectively.

But asking girls is really important as part of the process.

This has been an issue for years. There have been some will well publicised studies.

A major one is the societal pressure to look s certain way.

Getting hot and sweaty makes your face red, puffing and panting is not deemed attractive. Nor are sweat marks.

Long hair that has been styled gets fucked up. You have to wash it, s pita.

Having to wear clothes with little room to hide your body.

And then.

Periods. Especially with the sports with white uniforms.
Big boobs.

And
Sport is still seen as not feminine. Not for women really.

That sort of stuff.

The problem is with society and social expectations.

Not with girls.

IMO the funding is absolutely amazing if channelled correctly. I am fortunate enough to be in a school where it mostly is. I've been in schools where it's been used very ineffectively.But asking girls is really important as part of the process.

Sounds great and exactly the way forward. So disappointing it doesn't carry through into secondaries but not surprising given the monster that timetabling is . Also with the single minded focus on targets and academic achievement the will to try to accommodate such schemes will not be there, at least not at senior level.

I also think a wider variety of sports being made accessible, eg including martial arts and riding. Climbing etc. Trampolining. Even hiking, biking.

The financial accessibility is often the issue too.

Move away from "sport" and be as much about "physical active persuits."

This is what we are doing in our Sen school in addition to pe as so many of our children dislike or physically struggle with more mainstream sports and emotionally struggle with competitive games.

We couldn't easily do single sex though. Some classes have only one girl in if any. Max we've ever had is 3 I think.

Haven't read the whole thread but has anyone mentioned lack of space yet?

So many of the recreational space is given over to boys. This starts from the playground where boys take up the majority of space playing football and girls are on the edges. Parks have dedicated areas for skateboarding, basketball etc.

There was a thread last year describing the impact of all this on girls sports and a campaign to raise awareness and change policy.

Good quality sports bras make a world of difference, so it would be great to raise awareness of this and funding them for those who couldn't afford or face other barriers.

I'd also like schools to bring in women athletes to talk to children of both sexes - not necessarily (or even ideally) elites but local club players/runners/swimmers or committed yogis/gym goers.

I'd also like to see more work to build greater awareness of RED-S which I understand women and girls are more at risk from (for both biological and sociological reasons).

Oh, and more research into women's sporting needs - nutrition, hydration, training (including how to work round periods) that really work for the female body because far too much of the current research is done on male athletes whose bodies respond differently in a whole range of ways (body fat, muscle building and distribution etc).

A friend of mine who works in sport told me that a big factor in whether girls take up a sport and continue past school is if they have a mother who is active and sporty.

I know this adds another thing to the list of things a mother has to do but at least it is one thing of which we can be in control.

And yes to sports bras!

I had quite big boobs by the time i was a t secondary school but never had a proper sports bra. I'm amazed it was never brought up. I wonder if they were more expensive then.

@waronwomen lack of space is my bugbear. I did a huge survey which brought it up. The girls and non alpha boys had all noticed they'd been pushed to the edge by the bigger boys.
I zoned the playground, breaking it up into smaller spaces for designated activities. I also put in a.football timetable that alternated girls and boys. Initially it worked well and the kids on the outskirts uses the space. But those domineering boys got their way. Complained it wasn't fair, had fights. The staff supervising them got no support from SLT implementing it or giving sanctions so they went back to the status quo for an easy life.
Of course, I was public enemy no one to those boys and boy did they show it. They behaved hideous for me and I got no alt backing. Even when it veered into harrasment level.
So my point is it can change but it needs the qhole school behind it, not just the lower level staff on the ground.

The competition thing is interesting. I think taking sport seriously has permeated all levels of society. Nobody just jogs and swims and cycles a bit any more, they compete in triathlons. The number of middle aged men seriously into weekend cycling is huge. And at school the playground kickabout has turned into a heated football match. And many schools in my experience only care about encouraging the kids who are in the sports teams (imagine the outcry if a similar attitude was employed with numeracy or literacy!)

This attitude puts off anyone who isn't especially competitive. Kids who are not neurotypical often desperately want to move about at break time, but after a morning of lessons find the football (it's always football) is just more of the same rules, high expectations and aggro when you slip up.

It has taken me such a long time to realise I love sport and I'm not even awful at it, such was the damage done by my secondary school! But my sports bra makes it possible and costs nearly £50.

Actually.... I have 2 or 3 I don't fit anymore. I wonder if there's a scope in collecting and donating to disadvantaged school girls? They don't actually wear out that quick in my experience, because you only wear them for short periods and they're pretty tough.

mousey your approach sounds like it was great and similar to one implemented at my kids school. How disappointing you didn't get the support.

There's been quite a bit of work done on encouraging women/girls to use communal (supposedly) outdoor space more. This would tie in to giving girls more space to be casually 'sporty'. One thing that's really noticeable is lighting. Outdoor spaces are dark for most of the time girls aren't in school in the UK. If you light them properly, girls are more likely to hang out there.

The elite competition is a different (important!) can of worms, but in terms of general health and wellbeing, just normalising the idea of girls participating in a friendly (ish) 5-a-side one night a week, or spending Saturday morning doing tricks on a skateboard, would go a long way.

Oh, I have so many thoughts about this.

1. I think representation matters. A big issue for me when I was competing in my teens was that the women I saw represented as desirable, as aspirational, as, frankly, "real" women did not look athletic. They were smaller, thinner, more dainty. I spent years feeling "wrong" for being big and bulky. Even sports wear is modelled by non athletes. I wish there had been more role models like Gina Carano around when I was younger and I still think we desperately need more than just Gina Carano now.

2. I think PE is taught abominably in schools and is turned into a punishment so often. I wish there was more variety of sport available, so people like me who are crap at hand/eye coordination could be taught that sport can be fun and doesn't just have to be "have ball thrown at you and be shouted at if you don't catch it". Better funding for sport in schools, better funding for youth sports clubs, more options, and maybe PE teachers shouting less would be madly helpful.

3. I think the massive lack of broader interest in women's sport sucks. I'd love to see women's football broadcast at reasonable hours on TV, for example. That's something the wider media could hugely help with. There is something wrong when the only power lifter that most people know the name of is Laurel Hubbard because she's the only one talked about and that's because she's the first trans athlete. Most people couldn't name a female football player beyond Megan Rapinoe.

4. I wish sport could be presented as something that it's ok to be bad at. I know that sounds counter productive, but I am very sporty yet in my teens I dreaded PE because it felt like the space I went to fail and be told I wasn't good enough. Why can't PE be fun? Why can't we teach girls that it's ok to be a slow runner or a swimmer who just likes splashing about in the water? I love running now but it took me years to learn it was ok to just amble round the park and build from there. Competition should be an optional extra in exercise, not quite as bedded in at base and not quite so toxic in its expression.

@fruitbrewhaha

A friend of mine who works in sport told me that a big factor in whether girls take up a sport and continue past school is if they have a mother who is active and sporty.

I know this adds another thing to the list of things a mother has to do but at least it is one thing of which we can be in control.

I guess a father who is as willing to do sporty things with, or take his DDs to their activities is also helpful. Not just play footy with sons.