Enjoy beating up women? Become a policeman!

[Clymene]

An FOI request by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism has found that most forces simply don't investigate allegations of domestic violence against serving officers:

'there had been nearly 700 reports of domestic abuse by police officers in the three years to 2018 – averaging more than four a week. Less than one in ten reports resulted in a dismissal or warning. Only 3.9% of reports resulted in a conviction, compared with 6.2% among the general public.'

The police are deeply institutionally misogynist.

Full article (warning, contains graphic details of physical and emotional abuse): www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-06-15/years-of-living-in-fear-police-still-failing-partners-of-violent-officers

"Given the tight knit nature of emergency services communities, I can well imagine how isolated the wives and partners feel when they finally attempt to escape and how hopeless it must seem."

Yes. (not DV here but policeman victim). Yes.

@TheMarzipanDildo

What on earth is going on on this thread. Those statistics are fucking awful, surely you can all see that?!

I'm not sure they've read the actual report, it's just a knee-jerk reaction to the thread title.

It's bizarre, isn't it, Dildo? Any other time we discuss DV and the concern is for the victims.

Yet we mention the police and suddenly it's all about impugning innocent men. It's like going back in time.

OF COURSE most policemen don't abuse. That is blindingly obvious.

The rates are high and victims face unique challenges. A job like this will inevitably attract sadists and abusers, its unavoidable. The police as a whole must be very, very aware of this, and take rigorous steps to avoid and address the problems.

You won't be calling the police if you are a crime victim, then. As by your 'thinking' they are all wife beaters.

No. Thought not. Fucking stupid generalisation as usual on MN.

Maybe you should ask for the title to be changed.

Though I really don’t get though why people read it as all police are abusers as it’s not saying that. It’s just saying that if you are an abuser the police can be a good cover for it as they have a lower DV conviction rate. It shouldn’t be news to anyone that some bad people are attracted to or have been attracted to various professions (medical, clergy, positions of power)because they know they’ll be trusted and get away with things- as well as access to vulnerable people.

Just maintaining the list of "lofty heights" language being used to shut down the discussion about the police and domestic violence here on the feminism board:

"it's not helpful"
"sadly"
"overly dramatic"
"Balanced, rational thought is in short supply these days."
"just like anywhere else you'll always get bad eggs"

"You won't be calling the police if you are a crime victim, then"

Correct.

The only reason I eventually called the police was that he had filed so many false allegations against me by the point of the latest incident that I had my own criminal lawyer who told me to do so.
I had to speak to my own lawyer again twice before he could persuade me it was ok to talk to the officer who arrived.

So yep - correct.

... oh and we'd gone to the police station twice before but been turned away over the years.... that's why we'd given up on them.

My brother was a police officer. He's an abusive man and a misogynist. The power went to his head. He and his mate pulled young pretty women over on motorways by flashing their warrants cards through the windows to get them to stop so they could ask for their numbers. In a private car, not a police car.

I worked alongside the police as civilian support staff and came across the most hideous misogyny. "You've got a new member of staff, Mas - we employed the one with the biggest tits"

This was a long time ago but I'm sure there are still pockets of a similar mindset still.

I think it has changed. "My" officer went through a process before she called him in for interview and had a male colleague with her. So up to that point she was supported I think.

14 years ago when this started, that would not have been the case I think?

real change is slow.

@murbblurb

You won't be calling the police if you are a crime victim, then. As by your 'thinking' they are all wife beaters.

No. Thought not. Fucking stupid generalisation as usual on MN.

Most rape victims don't bother reporting these days. My neighbour certainly wishes she hadn't bothered. She fought back and they treated the perp as if he were the victim.

Being covered on Women's Hour now.

”You won't be calling the police if you are a crime victim, then.”

You’re right, I wouldn’t.

Like too many others now, I’d only report if I was legally obliged to (eg involved in a traffic accident) or because my insurance required a crime number (burglary). Obviously I’d call them if I saw an ongoing crime and didn’t feel able to intervene, but my expectations of the outcome aren’t what they would have been 15 years ago.

In my more naive days, I attempted to report the DV my then-partner inflicted on me. She did this three times and I presented at the front desk of my local station to report the second one. I won’t bother filling up a post with how little they gave a shit, despite me having very obvious facial injuries.

Suffice to say I have immense sympathy and understanding for women who just give up on reporting it.

“Being covered on Women's Hour now.“

Must have been a short segment - now they’re talking about 70s hair revivals. All the really important stuff.

It was quite a long segment - you'll be able to listen on catch up.

@Shinesun14

There is something about policemen and DV that rings a bell - I'm pretty sure they have the highest amounts of dv compared to any other profession.

I think - and it's just my opinion, there are two types of people who join the police, type one wants to help the public and victims of crime - type 2 enjoys the power they have over others. Type 2 is usually most talked about and type 1 gets tarred with the same brush.

Totally agree with your "type 1" & "type 2" type of officers. I joined the police in my early twenties. Lasted less than a year, it wasn't the job for me. I met some wonderful people, and some utter horrible twats that were on a power trip.

10 years later when my neighbour called the police due to my ExH's domestic violence, I minimised it. He had pulled the kitchen cupboard doors off in anger and smashed the house up. Then he threw me to the floor and pissed on me. I told the police officer that he'd never hit me, and it wasn't domestic violence, he was just drunk. I genuinely believed that was how drunk men behaved when they got angry and it was normal.

I've never met a kinder more gentle officer. He explained all that really wasn't normal, and it was horrific. That domestic violence was so much more than being punched in the face. That I couldn't stay with him (I was pregnant, and had a 2&3 yr old). I left ExH and never looked back, and wouldn't have done so had this wonderful officer not spoke to me with such compassion. A type 1 officer for sure.

The stats on conviction rates for serving police officers accused of DV are concerning but the most revealing thing for me is the energy and persistence police forces put into trying to bring charges against women whose abusers make allegations against them.

I can appreciate the challenges of investigating a crime where there are no witnesses and that it's easier if you are investigating harassment and there is an electronic communications trail but the determination in investing these crimes seems different. It suggests that some officers are willing to use their powers to pursue punitive prosecution against women who report domestic violence perpetrated by police officers.

Of course it's not all policemen just as it's not all men but in my experience abusers can be utterly charming to the world at large and complete sadists behind closed doors, the only men I would confidently describe as not abusive are those I have had close personal relationships with who were not abusive to me so I wouldn't be willing to say I have a mate who is a policeman and he's lovely therefore he's not capable of domestic violence. I had a relationship with a police officer, he was lovely, I married someone who was not a police officer and he was vile.

Link for woman's hour discussion.

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1404705436566228996?s=20

@murbblurb

You won't be calling the police if you are a crime victim, then. As by your 'thinking' they are all wife beaters.

No. Thought not. Fucking stupid generalisation as usual on MN.

No I wouldn't. But no, they're not all 'wife beaters' and no one has said they are.

Gosh, my title has really riled people hasn't it? And no, I don't want to change it. It was meant to be provocative. And this thread demonstrates exactly what we're up against when it comes to changing a toxic misogynist culture.

"the most revealing thing for me is the energy and persistence police forces put into trying to bring charges against women whose abusers make allegations against them. "

Yes. This happened to me. It took 8 months to get my freedom of information request answered as well. I'm glad I persisted because it wasn't the junior investigating officer who was the corrupt one, it turned out. He was clearly troubled by what was going on and made a note of my immediate reaction on hearing the accusations which was that I was frightened. But his more senior decision maker was a colleague of my abuser.

So - to answer the napalt people above - the non-corrupt junior man investigating me was obviously troubled, did what he could, but wouldn't risk his job for a stranger. That's how it is.

I had the money to lawyer up and request a cps review which killed it off.

To this day the police are refusing to disclose the footage they used to justify the charge.

it's difficult because who do you turn to if you've lost faith in the police?

The nay-sayers on here seem to imply that NAPALT so we should shut up about the ones who are. So as NAMALT should we shut up about all the men who are domestic abusers too, so as not to upset the wives, girlfriends and mothers of the good ones?

FloppyHoldsNoTruckWithFrontedA - have you requested your police records since the incident was NFA’d by the CPS? I’d be concerned that the more senior cop involved might have added notes that might not be in your favour and may show up if you ever need an enhanced DBS

I worked for the CMS for 3 years. The vilest, most agressive absent fathers were all policemen. This wasnt just the mothers telling us,this was from speaking to the men in person. The problem was so bad that myself and all my co workers would be able to tell a caller was a policeman without looking at the screen just by the way he spoke about his wife and children. Pretty much every single application i took where the exh was in the police the wives/partners were declaring domestic violence. I found it horrific, and yes although its not all police it certainly seems extremely widespread.

I'm a police officer. I joined specifically to tackle domestic abuse as I was a victim of it myself before joining. The police who came out were great BTW.

Policing has changed. The new generation coming through are brought in with an expectation - actually a job requirement - that any wrongdoing will not be tolerated and you can be sacked yourself if you fail to report something you know about or collude in covering it up. Something like 70% of front line cops in my force have less than 3 years in so have this expectation. It is mandatory to wear body cams when attending domestic incidents in many forces. This is largely to assist evidence-led prosecutions (i.e. where the victim doesn't want any action taken and so won'tprovide a statement, which is probably the majority of cases), where a first account from a distressed victim captured on the footage may be the only evidence you have that anything happened. This is good progress

I'm not going deny rates of DV in the police are a problem. The evidence speaks for itself and should be considered by our senior leaders as a serious reputational risk causing loss of confidence. Several forces actually have an initiative running at present to tackle exactly this. Which is great and indicative that attitudes have changed and things are getting better. Doesn't mean the problem has gone away though.
I have several theories for why this is. Firstly, DA cases account for approximately 70% of all 999 calls in many policing areas. Officers may deal with several in a day. Often there will be no injuries and both parties making allegations about the other (a well-known abuser tactic) and no witnesses. The CPS will not run these without an admission (which rarely happens). Neither will the CPS run jobs where the suspect has provided an account for why his partner has injuries (the 'prospect of a realistic conviction' threshold seems to be 'beyond reasonable doubt'). That's the case for cases with members of the public.
In cases involving police officers I'd hazard a guess that the majority are reported retrospectively rather than at the time of an incident. Certainly all the ones I've ever known about have come to light after a victim confides in someone and they then tell the police. Abusers are very good at making their victims feel responsible for their behaviour and many victims will be fearful of causing the abuser to lose their job - even more so if they have children and are financially dependent on that abuser. I know this is a factor in why some don't report, or later go on to retract.
So then you have your only evidence being a third-hand account from a person who wasn't present at any of the incidents and only heard about them from the victim. The CPS won't run that.
Also, police officers know the system and that always benefits an offender.
However, what you don't have is officers colluding to cover it up IME. How many times have we heard friends and family say 'he always seemed like such a great guy' about abusers or even family annihilators? It's the same with officers. Most are genuinely shocked when they find out. Sadly, society has enabled us to compartmentalise how women on relationships are treated compared to women as colleagues or friends. And weirdly some abusers are more harsh on other abusers than non-abusiver partners/police officers. It's sadly easy to hide unless you are very well educated about abuse and skilled at picking up the very subtle signs. Police forces cannot train their workforces to this extent unless something else gives.
Given the demand DA places on us, there's an argument for doing just that, but IMO it wouldnt achieve any significant change unless society overhauls itself too - the police only reflect the wider society of which they are a part.

@murbblurb

You won't be calling the police if you are a crime victim, then. As by your 'thinking' they are all wife beaters.

No. Thought not. Fucking stupid generalisation as usual on MN.

That's right. I avoid the police as much as is humanly possible. I would perhaps ask them to intervene if I thought someone else needed help, but from experiences with the police, I keep as far from them as possible.

The one time I did call them to ask for help on behalf of a woman who was being attacked by a gang of youths out on the street, they never showed up.

Clymene

"I didn't say they were. But the fact is that if you are a man who enjoys hitting women, then joining the police is a good career choice because you're much less likely to be investigated, be suspended, lose your job or be prosecuted than in most other jobs."

I was just going to post much the same thing. I was never interested in joining the police, because although I was always quite sporty, I was never violent. I went to school with quite a few guys who did get pleasure from being violent. The problem with the police protecting their own - "closing ranks" - has been known for a long time, so although it is NAPALT, it is a higher percentage than elsewhere.