Enjoy beating up women? Become a policeman!

[Clymene]

An FOI request by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism has found that most forces simply don't investigate allegations of domestic violence against serving officers:

'there had been nearly 700 reports of domestic abuse by police officers in the three years to 2018 – averaging more than four a week. Less than one in ten reports resulted in a dismissal or warning. Only 3.9% of reports resulted in a conviction, compared with 6.2% among the general public.'

The police are deeply institutionally misogynist.

Full article (warning, contains graphic details of physical and emotional abuse): www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-06-15/years-of-living-in-fear-police-still-failing-partners-of-violent-officers

[PlanDeRaccordement]

*typo 758,941..thank you dyslexia

[PlanDeRaccordement]

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/january2021

ONS link. Also it says 50.6% female, and 49.4% male

So....to repeat Quentins calculation but with better numbers,
Reported DV crimes for England & Wales (minus Manchester) in 2020 were 758,941. Assuming 100% perpetrators are male just to get highest theoretically possible population rate of DV by men

Population this is against is
England- 56.3 m plus
Wales- 3.2 m minus
Manchester- 0.53 m

Or, 58.97m people, of which 19% are children, leaving 47.77 m adults, of which 49.4% are men, which equals, 23.6m adult men.

So, 759,841 divided by 23.6m equals 3.2% rate of DV crime.. However, if we look at the number incidents, (because on CSEW many saying “yes” may not realise the DV incident was not a crime, ) that is
1,288,018 divided by 23.6m equals a 5.5% rate of DV incidents or just about what the CSEW reported.....

[PlanDeRaccordement]

32.9million adult males.

? Entire population U.K. is 66.8 million by latest mid 2019 figures....so not sure how you think exactly 50% are adult males....what of the children? A charts shows on average 19% of U.K. population are under age of 16. Only 62.5% are aged 16-64.

England- 56.3 m
Wales- 3.2 m
Manchester- 0.53 m

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@QuentinBunbury

So 530,000 domestic incidents were reported as crimes in 2020. 32.9million adult males. This gives a rate of 1.9%. Far less than the 5.5% in the CSEW

Is that just England? Because England and Wales minus Greater Manchester had 758,941 reports of DV crimes. (Again no split out between men or women perpetrators.)

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Link to ONS
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/domesticabuseinenglandandwalesoverview/november2020

[PlanDeRaccordement]

I'd suggest comparing DV by officers with all DV reported to the police would be more accurate than crime survey data.

Yes, I tried to find that, but nothing on ONS broke out the number of police reports by sex of perpetrator or victim. Only could find:

“The police recorded a total of 1,288,018 domestic abuse-related incidents and crimes in England and Wales (excluding Greater Manchester Police)1 in the year ending March 2020. Of these, 41% (529,077) were incidents not subsequently recorded as a crime. The remaining 59% (758,941) were recorded as domestic abuse-related crimes.”

I would've thought it's very clear that a police officer committing the offence would be a barrier to reporting.

I agree it is a barrier to reporting. But so would the same barrier apply to other professions, such as MPs. Even your PM was scrutinised after a neighbour called the police after hearing his then partner (now wife) screaming. Imagine reporting the PM for DV? Or a very high profile MP on the cabinet? Or even say a priest? Or a local mayor? There are many barriers around why women feel they cannot report DV.

[QuentinBunbury]

So 530,000 domestic incidents were reported as crimes in 2020. 32.9million adult males. This gives a rate of 1.9%. Far less than the 5.5% in the CSEW

[LesRosiers]

Mmm. Some accurate figures would be good to see, but I'd be really surprised if male police officers offended at a lower rate than other men.

[QuentinBunbury]

You seem very invested in this plan I'd suggest comparing DV by officers with all DV reported to the police would be more accurate than crime survey data. Many of the crimes captured in CSEW wouldn't be reported to police, including those carried out by officers.


I'm finding it interesting that barriers to reporting are often cited as a plausible reason why reported rates of DV by women against men are so low, yet the same can't work the other way. I would've thought it's very clear that a police officer committing the offence would be a barrier to reporting.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@LesRosiers

Yes agree the numbers are not very robust. They are unfortunately, all we have to go by. I was just countering the posters earlier in the thread that claimed the numbers show that male police officers were more likely to commit DV than “Joe Bloggs” (average man), when in fact, all the numbers we have show the opposite.

What the numbers do show is that once at trial, male police officers are significantly less likely to be convicted of DV than the average. This points to corruption at worst and apathy at best when investigating “one of their own”.

[LesRosiers]

@PlanDeRaccordement

there had been nearly 700 reports of domestic abuse by police officers in the three years to 2018

Oops.
Just noticed that the 700 reports were the sum of 3 YEARS of reports and I’ve compared it to the 1 YEAR data of the CSEW. So actually, it’s
233.33 out of 88,791 male officers reported each year for DV, which is 0.26% of the male police population...so they are actually twenty-one times LESS LIKELY to be reported for DV than the general population 5.5% reported in 2020.

Not all forces responded to the FOI so the figure of 700 isn't complete.

Most importantly of all, many women who are victims of domestic violence by the police probably won't report it. They, rightly as it turns out, would think that the chance of conviction of a police officer is very small.

I'm also a bit confused by the sums above. They use a figure of 700 offences by officers for crimes committed 2015 -18 and then work out a percentage calculated on the number of male police officers currently. That's then compared to the percentage of domestic violence victims (male and female, and including elder abuse) in 2020. None of that strikes me as very robust.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@NiceGerbil

You were the one that mentioned police brutality Plan!

I did so after noting your earlier post in which you brought it up, first introduced it to the thread:

“NiceGerbil Tue 15-Jun-21 14:58:18
The way that any discussion about the police is jumped on is very interesting. My force are appalling. Corrupt, killing people then lying.”

I just wanted to mention it is different and I wasn’t sure why you were bringing it up. Thank you for explaining further as I do agree with you that police brutality and DV are linked not just by powers corrupts as you mention, but the fact that violence breeds violence.

Police can try and compartmentalise the violence inherent in their professions, but using deadly force against a terrorist or a criminal often won’t stay in it’s box and bleeds over into not just how they treat potential criminals, mentally unwell people, protesters...relatively innocent people just being detained hence police brutality..and that violence then breeds violence in the home against even those they had love towards at one time- their partners and children.

[NiceGerbil]

Amongst others but they are big forces I think well the met certainly is.

[NiceGerbil]

This is upsetting.

Girl groomed from 15, sexually assaulted on police premises age 16. Threatened her.

4390 reports of sexual misconduct in last 5 years.

204 were actioned.

Only 52 in criminal court.

Suggest a watch on catch up.

The met and WYP have not responded to the foi newsnight sent.

[NiceGerbil]

On newsnight now

[NiceGerbil]

You were the one who mentioned police brutality plan! And said it wasn't as bad as the USA so I responded with some useful info in case anyone on the thread was interested.

I think with DV and police it is important.

There was a case in 2019 about it. I'll find some links in a mo.

Police have power. Power can be abused.

It's known that they close ranks and protect themselves when there's a problem.

They are supposed to uphold the law.

There are reports in the news all the bloody time about police officers doing xyz especially my force the met.

Loss of confidence/ that they work for the general public is important.

So much harm can be done if they do wrong.

Hence this thread.

Just seen on the news think it said Cressida dick has rejected the findings about that murder. Not looked at it properly yet.

[DonnieDark]

@murbblurb

You won't be calling the police if you are a crime victim, then. As by your 'thinking' they are all wife beaters.

No. Thought not. Fucking stupid generalisation as usual on MN.

Funnily enough no, I won't. Because on every occasion I've called them in the past - including for rape and DV - they've made every excuse to not deliver justice.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@NiceGerbil

Plan if the incidents/ accusations aren't being recorded, if there are no records, if they are not arrested. Then who knows.

Most DV is not reported to the police anyway.

The issue here is that the police tend to close ranks and look out for each other.

Gerbil,
That is why I used the CSEW numbers, they cover any allegation of DV. It isn’t true that no arrest= no record when using the CSEW numbers for DV.

Yes police are corrupt. But that doesn’t make the male ones more likely to be domestic abusers than the average man in the U.K.

It’s like saying a thief is more likely to be a rapist. The two are separate. As is police brutality not being DV either. So not sure why you have been posting about police brutality when the thread is about DV.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

There is something about policemen and DV that rings a bell - I'm pretty sure they have the highest amounts of dv compared to any other profession.

@Shinesun14. Actually it is combat experienced veterans/military who have highest rate of DV.

[NiceGerbil]

Plan if the incidents/ accusations aren't being recorded, if there are no records, if they are not arrested. Then who knows.

Most DV is not reported to the police anyway.

The issue here is that the police tend to close ranks and look out for each other.

[ArabellaScott]

Article in the Telegraph, too, but beyind a paywall.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/15/800-allegations-domestic-abuse-against-police-officers-past/

[PlanDeRaccordement]

there had been nearly 700 reports of domestic abuse by police officers in the three years to 2018

Oops.
Just noticed that the 700 reports were the sum of 3 YEARS of reports and I’ve compared it to the 1 YEAR data of the CSEW. So actually, it’s
233.33 out of 88,791 male officers reported each year for DV, which is 0.26% of the male police population...so they are actually twenty-one times LESS LIKELY to be reported for DV than the general population 5.5% reported in 2020.

[ArabellaScott]

'In the last five years, 829 allegations of domestic abuse have been made against police officers or staff, according to a freedom of information request by File on Four.

32 of the 46 UK police forces responded so the overall figure will be higher
Of those cases, 43 resulted in prosecution - 5% of the total - which is lower than the rate of domestic violence prosecutions against members of the public, which is 9%'

From the BBC article.

I wonder why fewer cases were prosecuted?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57432300

[NiceGerbil]

We have very different population makeups.

Our police don't tend to have guns.

This site relates to the deaths in custody of black men
www.inquest.org.uk/

Government enquiry
'There is evidence that restraint is disproportionately involved in the deaths of
people of black, Asian and minority ethnicity. INQUEST casework shows that the
proportion of BAME deaths in custody where restraint is a feature is over two
times greater than it is in other deaths in custody, as is the proportion where use
of force is a feature.15 These trends raise serious questions about the influence of
racism as a contributing factor to deaths, and have particular capacity to provoke
understandable anger and distrust within black communities.'

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/11638/pdf/&ved=2ahUKEwia2IGch53xAhU3_7sIHR_6BskQFjAEegQIGRAC&usg=AOvVaw2kSCOPX9kEptiNTST2Uygy" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/11638/pdf/&ved=2ahUKEwia2IGch53xAhU3_7sIHR_6BskQFjAEegQIGRAC&usg=AOvVaw2kSCOPX9kEptiNTST2Uygy

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@LesRosiers

And.. to the other poster, no it’s not ‘more likely’ that someone is an abuser if they’re a police officer.

I'm not sure that can be said with certainty.

It can. See my post with the actual statistics. Cheers.