Hysteroscopy without anaesthetic is a women's rights issue

[SocialConnection]

'Being a woman means living with pain!'

Ever heard that lie?

Ever nodded along with it, resignedly accepting some intrusive gynaecological procedure that causes you excruciating pain?

BECAUSE THEY WERE OPERATING ON YOU WITHOUT ANY ANAESTHESTIC?

Calm down!
All Lemon said was that paracetamol helped her. As it does many other women. Melrose said she ‘doubted’ paracetamol would help - this implies she hasn’t actually tried it. No one is trying to minimise someone else’s experience here.

I don't take commands from sneering sexists who minimise other people's lived experiences that they've chosen to share with others .

Of course it has everything to do with women, Lemon, men don't have this procedure.

@SocialConnection

It is indeed a women's rights issue. Women's pain is consistently minimised. Our voices not heard. It is misogyny in action.

This.

No, it’s not minimising which is why there is the option of anaesthetic.

But there isn't in a quite stunning number of cases, which is why there's a campaign about it. This thread alone has demonstrated that the option of anaesthetic is not being made readily available to those who need this procedure, all of whom are, of course, women. This isn't the first thread about this on here and it's not enough to conclude, well, the women found it 'acceptable' so on we crack. Plenty have made it clear they fell into this 'acceptable' category because they managed to get through it with no pain relief and found it horrific and traumatising.

But don't let women's lived experience and right to choice stand in the way of some good jargon.

So interesting.
^For some reason. If you can't tolerate it. If you want th3 more dangerous route....^
That frames 8t immediately as a personal failing.
^Retroverted uterus. No experience of vaginal birth. Scarring on cervix. Unsympathetic HCPs who don't communicate.^
Actual measurable things which clearly contribute hugEly to how painful the experience is. Why frame it as women not tolerating pain as well as most people, when there seem to be such clear guidelines for why and who might not tolerate it for very good reasons?

Not a hysteroscopy but I am being treated for PTSD because of this .

At nineteen I had a labiaplasty - most of my labia minora was removed and most of the tissue around my clitoris (hood reduction) - due to a genetic condition (everything was so excessive I couldn’t pass urine - they think it might have been hormonally driven although I am fully genetically female).

I wasn’t given pain relief, I wasn’t supported at all - I had in excess of 35-40 stitches and wasn’t given any pain relief at all. I wasn’t given a buzzer, a proper bed for 12 hours, I wasn’t allowed help to use the toilet and I wasn’t allowed to sit on my bed the next day - I was told I had to sit on a plastic chair . My stitches were removed in the nurse’s office with tweezers and again, no pain relief .

I’ve since been back and forth for ten years with chronic pelvic pain and severe period pain; forced through dozens and dozens of examinations and scans and shouted at, sworn at, sexually assaulted during one, had a speculum thrown across the room by a doctor when I asked her to please stop as she was hurting me, been told to grit my teeth or bite down, been ridiculed . In my best estimation I’ve well over 200 internal examinations . They’ve never diagnosed the pain thing - therapist said she’s 99% convinced it’s actually psychological due to trauma .

In all that time I’ve had just four doctors who have cared . Two GPs, two very senior consultants . Also one psychological therapist . In every other case it’s been ‘but everyone else can do this, why can’t you?’

Even needing a smear - ‘But I really think you should try harder - surely if you learn to relax’

I have nightmares now that I’m in that position again . I black out at doctors appointments because they’ve got a couch . Had the dentist yesterday and spent the entire time in tears because the chair reminded me of it . Pilates instructor said to bend my knees apart and I had to stop - because it reminded me.

I genuinely do not think the NHS care . If they did, they would never have let it happen in the first place . They certainly don’t care much about the PTSD; my therapist is wonderful and really does help me but telling consultant ‘nothing we can do about that is there - you’ll get over it’

And yes, I think it’s because I’m female - therapist said if it was a penile op they’d have fallen over themselves to help and support .

My experience of an HSG was that a junior doctor slipped me a (Naproxen?) suppository in the clinic a few weeks before, saying that they didn’t usually give anything other than advice to take paracetamol but that I’d find it a lot better if I used this.

It was given as a sort of apology for having been sent to the wrong clinic, for the wrong issue, after a long wait, and being passed from pillar to post without getting any nearer to a solution to the problem I’d been referred about. Which I’d been quite vocal about.

Even with the suppository, it took all I had to carry on with it when they tried to flush my tubes. Really painful. They did offer to stop, but I stuck it out as I was desperate for a baby and thought it might help.

Afterwards, I got on the wrong bus home as I was so out of it.

I've just looked at my appointment information again. The little info leaflet describes the procedure and the various anaesthetic options possible, however a letter is included that says due to COVID no anaesthetic or GA will be possible so they recommend I take paracetamol and ibuprofen before hand.

Fuck that !!!! I have cancelled the appointment, i'm not experiencing the same symptoms I was and i'm quite sure I dont have fibroids or polyps. The appt would have been when i'm on my period anyway, but after discussing with DH I dont want to undergo a procedure where they clearly state that usually they do pain relief but due to covid they wont be.

@SpnBaby1967

I've just looked at my appointment information again. The little info leaflet describes the procedure and the various anaesthetic options possible, however a letter is included that says due to COVID no anaesthetic or GA will be possible so they recommend I take paracetamol and ibuprofen before hand.

Fuck that !!!! I have cancelled the appointment, i'm not experiencing the same symptoms I was and i'm quite sure I dont have fibroids or polyps. The appt would have been when i'm on my period anyway, but after discussing with DH I dont want to undergo a procedure where they clearly state that usually they do pain relief but due to covid they wont be.

I have no idea why covid is used as an excuse to not give any GA/anaesthetic. I'd contact PALS about that and push back on it. It's horrific.

@nmechange23456

Not a hysteroscopy but I am being treated for PTSD because of this .

At nineteen I had a labiaplasty - most of my labia minora was removed and most of the tissue around my clitoris (hood reduction) - due to a genetic condition (everything was so excessive I couldn’t pass urine - they think it might have been hormonally driven although I am fully genetically female).

I wasn’t given pain relief, I wasn’t supported at all - I had in excess of 35-40 stitches and wasn’t given any pain relief at all. I wasn’t given a buzzer, a proper bed for 12 hours, I wasn’t allowed help to use the toilet and I wasn’t allowed to sit on my bed the next day - I was told I had to sit on a plastic chair . My stitches were removed in the nurse’s office with tweezers and again, no pain relief .

I’ve since been back and forth for ten years with chronic pelvic pain and severe period pain; forced through dozens and dozens of examinations and scans and shouted at, sworn at, sexually assaulted during one, had a speculum thrown across the room by a doctor when I asked her to please stop as she was hurting me, been told to grit my teeth or bite down, been ridiculed . In my best estimation I’ve well over 200 internal examinations . They’ve never diagnosed the pain thing - therapist said she’s 99% convinced it’s actually psychological due to trauma .

In all that time I’ve had just four doctors who have cared . Two GPs, two very senior consultants . Also one psychological therapist . In every other case it’s been ‘but everyone else can do this, why can’t you?’

Even needing a smear - ‘But I really think you should try harder - surely if you learn to relax’

I have nightmares now that I’m in that position again . I black out at doctors appointments because they’ve got a couch . Had the dentist yesterday and spent the entire time in tears because the chair reminded me of it . Pilates instructor said to bend my knees apart and I had to stop - because it reminded me.

I genuinely do not think the NHS care . If they did, they would never have let it happen in the first place . They certainly don’t care much about the PTSD; my therapist is wonderful and really does help me but telling consultant ‘nothing we can do about that is there - you’ll get over it’

That is absolutely horrendous, I am so sorry that this happened to you. As you say, expecting men to have penile surgery without anaesthetic - it just wouldn't happen would it?

I was never given any pain relief options and by the time it became obvious I was "one of those women" to whom it causes horrendous pain instead of the procedure being stopped and giving me alternative options they physically pinned me down instead and told me that it wasn't normal to be in so much pain, as if I was somehow at fault.

What does it matter if it's ' not normal' to be in pain? The important thing is not the supposed normality - it's the pain!

It's not normal to be allergic to sunlight. So if someone's coming out in hives do the HCPs just expect them to get on with it because most people don't react, or do they prescribe anti-histamines?

'Not normal'

There is no benefit to the use of conscious sedation.

There is huge benefit to the patient if she does not remember the distress and is therefore not traumatised by it.

By majority, I mean the 94% of women undergoing the procedure who find it acceptable.

Where do you get that figure from? My understanding is that 75% tolerate it or accept the pain. Finding it 'acceptable' does not mean didn't find it painful. The ridiculous pressure women are put under to tolerate pain will mean that many will call it acceptable when they would far rather have had effective pain relief. And, no, paracetamol does diddly-squat for this sort of pain.

I have no idea why covid is used as an excuse to not give any GA/anaesthetic. I'd contact PALS about that and push back on it. It's horrific.

Let's see, the usual suspects will be back with jargon about waiting lists due to Covid and some passive aggressive guilt-tripping about not wanting to burden the NHS with your demands and being out of the ordinary claptrap.

The real reason: Covid is like all the Tories' Christmases came at once. Now they can start slashing and burning even more and if you don't like it, 'go private'. And guess what services they'll start with first (I'll give you a hint you don't need - the most vulnerable and least vocal will be in the frontline of that, not able-bodied men).

My understanding is that 75% tolerate it or accept the pain. Finding it 'acceptable' does not mean didn't find it painful. The ridiculous pressure women are put under to tolerate pain will mean that many will call it acceptable when they would far rather have had effective pain relief. And, no, paracetamol does diddly-squat for this sort of pain.

This ^^

As you say, expecting men to have penile surgery without anaesthetic - it just wouldn't happen would it?

My husband had a vasectomy. He was offered local, spinal or GA at the consultation. He wasn't told, 'Now that you're here, we'll just do it now,' and not even offered gas and air or told to come back to have it done with a couple of oral paracetamol and toke on some gas and air or it was making a fuss.

I am post- menopausal and have a tilted uterus, have had 2 children (one was a very long labour, with episiotomy) the other shorter but I tore badly. I have a high pain threshold.
I’ve had 2 hysteroscopies. The first under general anaesthetic. The second was a local anaesthetic and was brutal. It was the most painful thing I have known and the doctor treated me like a naughty child when I shouted in pain. I had been told to have a light breakfast and was then scolded for having eaten and therefore unable to have a general anaesthetic (the nurse holding my hand told him to stop as he was hurting me) He seemed to think I was making a fuss over a small discomfort. I am terrified of having to go through it again and although I can’t really afford it, would go private and have GA rather than endure that again. I was affected deeply.

@TheHumanSatsuma

I am post- menopausal and have a tilted uterus, have had 2 children (one was a very long labour, with episiotomy) the other shorter but I tore badly. I have a high pain threshold. I’ve had 2 hysteroscopies. The first under general anaesthetic. The second was a local anaesthetic and was brutal. It was the most painful thing I have known and the doctor treated me like a naughty child when I shouted in pain. I had been told to have a light breakfast and was then scolded for having eaten and therefore unable to have a general anaesthetic (the nurse holding my hand told him to stop as he was hurting me) He seemed to think I was making a fuss over a small discomfort. I am terrified of having to go through it again and although I can’t really afford it, would go private and have GA rather than endure that again. I was affected deeply.

It was nearly 6 years ago and typing that has made me cry as I remembered it

I finally registered with MN just to reply to this post. I had 2 hysteroscopies. the first one was in 2019 and I was told that it was a very simple procedure with no pain and if I was worried I could have a paracetamol just before the procedure. The gynaecologist and the nurses really convinced me that it was a pain free procedure. Before the procedure I searched online and found that it could be painful so I took strong analgesia 30 minutes before the procedure. It was such a traumatic and horrible experience. During the procedure they kept telling me to "hold it a bit more and soon will be over". I could not continue and I could feel their judgmental eyes. I was really traumatised for the experience and had cramps for over a month. The Gynae booked me back with a general anaesthesia. On the day, I met many women having the same procedure and staff told me that this is very common and the majority of women cannot cope with the pain without the anaesthesia. Im still feeling upset about this experience. I wish medical professionals were more supportive instead of assuming that we have to cope with pain.

My mum had a hysteroscopy yesterday. She said it was as mildly uncomfortable. And that was it.

She took 2 paracetamol an hour before the appointment.

@Toddlerteaplease

My mum had a hysteroscopy yesterday. She said it was as mildly uncomfortable. And that was it.

Was she offered a choice of anaesthetics at the consultation, however? Because again, some women find it mildly uncomfortable, but many find it painful and are not being offered pain relief or choice of pain relief.

And, if you read this thread and others, some have one and do fine and then find the next one incredibly painful.

I had one a few years ago to remove a polyp. I was told to take some paracetamol beforehand, that it would hurt but would be bearable, but that doing it this way was better than having anaesthetic which would take time to recover from. Well... it was horrific and the pain was so bad I vomited whilst I was on my back then panicked because I couldn't clear my mouth of the vomit. In fairness, I did recover quickly afterwards but the pain at the time was traumatic.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

As you say, expecting men to have penile surgery without anaesthetic - it just wouldn't happen would it?

My husband had a vasectomy. He was offered local, spinal or GA at the consultation. He wasn't told, 'Now that you're here, we'll just do it now,' and not even offered gas and air or told to come back to have it done with a couple of oral paracetamol and toke on some gas and air or it was making a fuss.

I'd like to highlight this again because the point is he was offered the choice before the procedure and allowed to make it for himself, with the risks of each explained and no pressure or told, 'Take a couple of paracetamol and we'll see how we get on' like some guinea pig because 'most' men do actually do fine with the procedure with just a local. He did in fact choose the local and was fine but again, the choice was offered clearly at consultation, each option explained, no pressure or needing the justify his decision before he was anywhere near the procedure couch.

Afterwards he was treated with dignity and kindness.

These differences are startling.

I've seen several accounts ofveomen who vomited while trapped on their backs, legs up, full kit inside them.

What equipment and procedures does the nurse have to hand to save a woman from choking if this happens?