Noel Clarke sexual harassment allegations, suspended by BAFTA

[Cwenthryth]

www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/apr/29/actor-noel-clarke-accused-of-groping-harassment-and-bullying-by-20-women

🤬🤬🤬

Especially galling that BAFTA was seemingly made aware of this before giving him his very recent honour. I watched his acceptance speech and found it really moving in terms of celebrating a working class black man’s success in a historically white industry. Turns out he’s an (alleged) sexual abuser. Fucking great.

@Maggiesfarm that is exactly how JB has got away with his behaviour. He can't possibly be sexually assaulting women because he isn't interested in women 🙄

It's nothing to do with sex, it's about power, intimidation and making people feel uncomfortable. He's been hiding in plain sight all these years because of viewpoints like yours and many others.

And dare I say it Gok Wan? Just grabbing women by the ‘bangers’ and saying how fabulous they are. How can you be offended when he is gay?

@littlbrowndog

It’s like everybody knew but no one spoke

Same old story

@Queenofbeebers

And dare I say it Gok Wan? Just grabbing women by the ‘bangers’ and saying how fabulous they are. How can you be offended when he is gay?

Completely agree, doing that was treating women like pieces of meat and of course the women selected for his show generally had low esteem so didn’t challenge his behaviour

Stillfemale I never thought of it from that angle, but you're right.

How bloody depressing.

littlbrowndog: It’s like everybody knew but no one spoke

Indeed and the Guardian, no less, seemed to play down an incident of his flashing during a radio session as far back as 2008 www.theguardian.com/media/organgrinder/2008/dec/02/bbc-radio-john-barrowman

I didn't realise until today JB had an MBE - how did that happen when his flasher habit was well known?

@subbysammiexoxo

A family friend is good friends with noel grew up with him etc and is shocked by the allegations, said he's a very lovely man so who knows the truth will come out in the end, however it actually is

Likewise I did too!

The Noel I knew was a “nice guy” Was popular and charismatic, but he was Also arrogant and would take himself too seriously at times. He was a big flirt and would make Rude comments/jokes about girls appearance all the time.

But he wasn’t the only one - many of the boys behaved in the same way. I’m finding all of this quite difficult To process, and I’m left wondering about my teen years, what was “bants” and what was sexual harassment. (Not from NC but The other boys)

Btw- from the grapevine rumours, I’m pretty certain he and his wife Split years ago And live quite separate lives, but are raising their children together (although I’ve always wondered if the youngest has a different mother!)

@TimeIsUp

littlbrowndog: It’s like everybody knew but no one spoke

Indeed and the Guardian, no less, seemed to play down an incident of his flashing during a radio session as far back as 2008 www.theguardian.com/media/organgrinder/2008/dec/02/bbc-radio-john-barrowman

I didn't realise until today JB had an MBE - how did that happen when his flasher habit was well known?

I just love the way The Guardian manages to mock and belittle readers of The Daily Mail in that article. The arrogance of the liberal, educated, middle class, Guardian reader is really something. I mean that's my tribe and its attitude is often disgusting

[quote PrincessScarlett]@Maggiesfarm that is exactly how JB has got away with his behaviour. He can't possibly be sexually assaulting women because he isn't interested in women 🙄

It's nothing to do with sex, it's about power, intimidation and making people feel uncomfortable. He's been hiding in plain sight all these years because of viewpoints like yours and many others.[/quote]
Exactly - I used to work with a gay man who was a real bully at a magazine, he would stare directly at my crotch with a nasty smile on his face. He knew that if I complained people would say I was making it up because he was gay. It was a power trip like all sexual abuse.

What I can't understand is.... the likes of NC and JB... how in god's name do they think this is OK?

If it was okay they wouldn't be interested in doing it.

I'm surprised and saddened at Eve Myles being okay with what JB did to her

Queenofbeebers

Gok Wan’s whole show was vile. Making women stand somewhere public in their underwear to “empower” them? Do me a favour.

Although Trinny and Susannah were almost as bad, negging and hectoring until the woman agreed to wear an A-line skirt and knee boots or whatever.

Both shows seemed to have a disproportionate focus on breasts and nudity, and embarrassed shy women in order to “rescue” them. Misogyny runs through our culture like letters in seaside rock.

I can only imagine that Eve Myles and the like have been putting up with such behaviour for years and have come to accept it as normal. These cases highlight how rife unacceptable behaviour in the workplace, and this industry in particular, is. And just because Eve Myles doesn't see anything wrong with it doesn't make it right and doesn't mean that all the other women subjected to JB's cock think it's ok.

[quote Unsure33]@nightbear

Innocent until proven guilty Is the base of our legal system which although is not perfect is the most respected in the world. It does not mean people should get away with anything . And it definitely does not mean in this case that people are doubting the claims

I bet you would believe it if you were accused of something you did not do , like being an child abuser and it was all over your local paper .

Then you go to court and all the jury are from your village .

This is what trial by media is .

And now he is happily building up his defence also in the public eye.[/quote]
Can I just point out that you are wrong here.

"Innocent until proven guilty" and 'beyond all reasonable doubt' is the criminal justice system standard. The one which, remember, leaves 99% of rapists unpunished, criminally.

But that is not the only legal system in the UK. There is also civil law, where the standard is on the balance of probabilities and, given that we now have 21 separate stories, more coming out, and a mountain of corroborating evidence, we would be well past that burden of proof.

Some of this behaviour may not be criminal. But it's certainly not civil behaviour, is it? And employers don't tend to allow bad behaviour to continue unchallenged until it reaches the threshold of criminality and is then proved in court beyond all reasonable doubt. Otherwise companies wouldn't need codes of conduct and nobody would ever get sacked.

Can anyone in the industry give insight to this.. why would it take so long for everyone to come forward with these allegations? I understand not wanting to be the only voice and protecting your earning potential.. but when Adam Deacon was saying this years ago, I would have thought it would have prompted people to come forward sooner i.e. they wouldn't have been a lone voice. Even people in the same films as Deacon are only coming forward now. And Noel was allowed to go on and on and on.

I know it must be terribly hard to come forward with something like this. I think I'm just so surprised he got away with it for so long, seems as though it was going on left right and centre. Was it the Guardian that connected these incidents? Or women gradually talking to each other?

What is the industry missing? Maybe an independent body where incidents and complaints can be made anonymously and reviewed.. and acted upon, if there are numerous complaints against one individual?

@Caneloalvarez

Can anyone in the industry give insight to this.. why would it take so long for everyone to come forward with these allegations? I understand not wanting to be the only voice and protecting your earning potential.. but when Adam Deacon was saying this years ago, I would have thought it would have prompted people to come forward sooner i.e. they wouldn't have been a lone voice. Even people in the same films as Deacon are only coming forward now. And Noel was allowed to go on and on and on.

I know it must be terribly hard to come forward with something like this. I think I'm just so surprised he got away with it for so long, seems as though it was going on left right and centre. Was it the Guardian that connected these incidents? Or women gradually talking to each other?

What is the industry missing? Maybe an independent body where incidents and complaints can be made anonymously and reviewed.. and acted upon, if there are numerous complaints against one individual?

Because nobody thinks sexual harassment is a big deal. The men knew it was happening, and either joined in, enjoyed watching the women being sexually degraded, or just thought that's what women are for.

The women can't speak up because they know if they say something, the majority of people (especially the ones with power - mostly men) will blame them and then destroy them.

Because women know thelat they will never be 'the perfect victim'. They will never has acted exactly the right way for society to deem them blameless. They'll be told they encouraged it, enjoyed it, we're using their sexual wares to get ahead in their careers, that they were basically prostitutes, why did you go for dinner with him? You knew what you were doing. Why did you text him after if you didn't like what he did? How stupid do you have to be to do a naked audition? Etc etc.

[quote EnidSpyton]@SirVixofVixHall

I'm really sorry about your father's experience, Vix, but he did the right thing.

And he did it because he didn't want to see children getting abused.

Women being abused shouldn't be treated any differently to children being abused. It is a legal requirement to report child abuse. It should be a legal requirement to report sexual harassment and abuse. If it were, then the fear factor would be removed, people would be able to speak out and change would happen. While sexual harassment remains something that's accepted and just 'men being men' and something women should just put up and shut up with, it will continue to run rife in EVERY industry.

This isn't just about the entertainment industry. It's about every workplace. The entertainment industry loves to make everything about them but I'm sure every woman from every walk of life has experienced being spoken to or touched inappropriately in the workplace. I most certainly have. This is a massive societal problem and it's something we all need to be prepared to stand up against and solve together.

We would never stand by and watch a child being abused for fear of losing our jobs. We just wouldn't. We know as a society it's our job to protect children. We should have exactly the same attitude towards women. It makes me so deeply sad that so many people don't.[/quote]
Yea Enid i agree.
I absolutely think my Dad did the right thing, we all did. I was proud of my Dad. I do understand how hard it can be though for people to challenge bad behaviour in the workplace when they can face serious negative consequences for doing so.
Where there is a culture of not challenging things, it becomes even harder- Jimmy Saville being a case in point. Companies need to foster an environment where people can speak up, and yet everywhere women are being silenced for simply wanting single sex spaces to be upheld.
I worry about cancel culture because it stops people from being able to speak up when things are wrong.

My personal experience: women do speak out for years, either to silence or to active oppression.

Every single time a man is outed en masse as a predator, there's years and years of women complaining and speaking out about him: tweeting about him, posting online, making complaints to Equity, making complaints to producers or to their agents, sharing warning stories with other women in the industry.

All this simply never gains any traction until one day it either reaches a critical mass point, or a specific trigger happens.

The trigger could be different things: harassed the wrong person (didn't realise that female extra was the niece of a journalist or a producer); former victim finally reached a level of power in their own career where they could take action; had a project flop so no longer protected; pissed off the wrong people; journalist interested in MeToo happened to meet a former victim.

Was it the Guardian that connected these incidents? Or women gradually talking to each other?
Yeah it could be both/either these things.

I have a personal (second hand) connection to both Weinstein and Spacey, and in both those cases everyone knew, but those men were protected because they were so powerful and their projects made money. In Weinstein's case, a lot of people basically waited for years ready to pounce the second his career weakened (meaning the second his films stopped making money). In Weinstein's case other Hollywood power players with an ulterior motive in bringing him down leaked certain info and guided journalists and sources together. In Spacey's case, Anthony Rapp was powerful enough to open Pandora's Box (I don't know why he decided to do so when he did) and then that allowed everyone else to chip in.

I don't know how it happened with Noel. Why now specifically. Obviously the Bafta award was a trigger.

But yeah. Women have been complaining and speaking out for years.

Three years ago I made an official complaint to Equity over being sexually harassed and sort of groped by a TV actor. They completely ignored it and tried their hardest to silence me. What happened wasn't 'bad' enough to go to the police and my own behaviour isn't something I'd like put on trial. So I have no other options. But one day he'll be exposed and I'll be there, and everyone will say "but how come froggy and those other women didn't speak up sooner?" WE DID.

@Caneloalvarez

Can anyone in the industry give insight to this.. why would it take so long for everyone to come forward with these allegations? I understand not wanting to be the only voice and protecting your earning potential.. but when Adam Deacon was saying this years ago, I would have thought it would have prompted people to come forward sooner i.e. they wouldn't have been a lone voice. Even people in the same films as Deacon are only coming forward now. And Noel was allowed to go on and on and on.

I know it must be terribly hard to come forward with something like this. I think I'm just so surprised he got away with it for so long, seems as though it was going on left right and centre. Was it the Guardian that connected these incidents? Or women gradually talking to each other?

What is the industry missing? Maybe an independent body where incidents and complaints can be made anonymously and reviewed.. and acted upon, if there are numerous complaints against one individual?

I think with a lot of the crew, they are self employed, so while its not just protecting their earning potential, its protecting their career, once they are blacklisted, they won't work in a career that has taken them ages to obtain.

If they do speak out and they are the only ones to do so, you have the same situation as to what happened to Adam Deacon.

The other problem is, its very ingrained, for years people have been talking/joking about the casting couch

It's funny how you're not surprised when someone's accused like Noel based purely on how they look. Ed Westwick is another actor who I wasn't surprised to hear he'd been accused of rape a couple of years ago. I can't bear to look at his smug face

@Orgasmagorical

What I can't understand is.... the likes of NC and JB... how in god's name do they think this is OK?

If it was okay they wouldn't be interested in doing it.

I'm surprised and saddened at Eve Myles being okay with what JB did to her

Queenofbeebers

When you are in an work environment where its ‘normal’ you have to laugh along or you’re seen as a prude and a humourless bitch and your career will suffer. You might put an ‘amusing’ spin when retelling the story as its the only way you’re allowed to talk about what happened to you.

Agree with @froggygoneacourting. I think women have been speaking out for years but have either been not believed or silenced. In the Guardian article at least one of the women was told or believed her career would be finished if she didn't like what was happening. And NC appears to have preyed on young actresses and crew members who are just starting out so are worried about establishing a career.

I sort of get making a joke out of it

But Eve is looking like she really found it funny

I feel like whole business is just grim. I have a friend who is, I thought, a bit funny about showbiz, says she doesn't watch TV any more because she has so many issues with it but doesn't want to explain further.

Looking back, if I think collectively about some of the things I've heard on Graham Norton, there's some grim stuff. I think that lady pushing JB away is meant to be a joke? but there's now a bunch of jokes where I can't see the humour.

April 2016

SEX-MAD

Sex-mad comic Russell
Brand was told off by Billy Connolly after he refused to start filming
until a wardrobe girl flashed her boobs at him.

His cheeky demand delayed shooting on the first day for two hours, so the
assistant eventually gave in for the sake of the schedule.

www.thesun.co.uk/archives/tv-old/809265/dressing-down-for-film-lothario-russell-brand/?fbclid=IwAR20eOjYj4Q5jZnld6t3o1wudsAy3WJQ2CTuJMdhAxsAHuXryopYQjLPX7c

It gets worse - a 'prank' in which NC tried to get one of the women now come forward, to pee on his friend telling her to 'Just take your fanny out and pee on him, what's wrong with you?'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9533007/Noel-Clarke-told-one-accusers-f-pee-friend-prank.html#comments