Please tell me I'll be ok....

[BeckyBendyLegs]

Hi, I've been saying recently how much better I am but last night I had no sleep and was telling DH I wanted to end it all. He's gone to work now. I have to get up three DSs and get them to school, nursery, and look after DS3 5 months and I just want to sleep but I can't sleep. I thought I was better. I've been sleeping so well but last night it all came back to me, insomnia. It was horrible. I just feel so that life isn't worth living if I have to suffer this insomnia and the DSs and DH would be better without me. I know that isn't rational, I know I don't think like that when I've had enough sleep, but right now I can't face the day I feel dizzy. I guess I just want someone to say you'll be ok.

Ok guys, update, last night I fell asleep in front of Lost until DH woke me up but then when I went to bed, the anxiety returned and I tossed and turned for 40 minutes then took diazepam as I was soooo tired I was panicking about what if I don't sleep? God, it was horrible. I slept. Then woke up this morning feeling so down and depressed again thinking negative thoughts. I got up, spoke to DH and he said 'you need to stop this, you need to be positive, get up, get dressed, get on with the day, make the most of it, stop obsessing, you can sleep, you needed help last night because you were anxious, accept that, move on'. So I'm feeling better now. I regret that I caved last night and took medication, which I haven't done for weeks now, but I can't change it. I have to keep positive. I know I can sleep well. I need to get better for my boys. They need me. I need to keep fighting, keep going with the positive sleep thoughts and try to come to terms with the bad nights (my main struggle: at present I cannot cope with the bad nights).

Hi becky !! Well done for getting through last night. Regardless of whether you took a diazepam YOU GOT THROUGH IT. What I think is fantastic is that you fell asleep in front of the TV ? and this without any drugs. So you obviously CAN do it. You have probably got some negative sleep associations with your bed and your bedroom. I found this myself. I would be really really tired and sleepy and then as soon as I got into bed I would be wide awake and my heart would be pounding. I also found that when I went away e.g. to parents or somewhere different, I actually surprised myself and slept better - because I was away from my bedroom and my own bed where all the awful panic and insomnia started.

Your DH sounds a bit harsh ? but I know where he?s coming from. Keep in mind that you are not choosing to be this way. It?s not something you can easily ?snap out of?. I?m sure he is getting tired and frustrated too, but you are both on the same side and both of you want you to be better.

Do you know what? I don?t think it was the diazepam that got you to sleep last night. I bet you were panicking and when you took one, just the sense of relief at knowing you would finally get some sleep helped you relax enough to fall asleep naturally. When I would lie awake in bed panicking I would get up, take a zopiclone and within minutes I would be asleep. However, they take a minimum of 20 minutes to work. It was the relief and the exhaustion that sent me to sleep ? not the pill (well, sometimes).

What I?m trying to say is that you can sleep, your body knows how to sleep. However, what should be automatic has become conscious and that?s where you trip yourself up. You lie there and try to sleep, which hardly ever works. Of course you know all this, just want to encourage you that the more you go over it and over it in your mind, the harder it will be. Try wearing an elastic band on your wrist and everytime you think about sleep, ping the elastic band to ?stop? yourself. You are just having a blip and you will get through this.

One of my favourite positive sleep thoughts is:

?every episode of insomnia gives me another opportunity to learn how to beat it?.

x

GetDown you are such a lovely person and you've really helped me over the weeks. Do you know what, you are right. As soon as I took the pills I was asleep within about 5-10 mins I guess. I know the panic is what stopped me sleeping and I know that it is self-defeating. I know I can sleep well. I get so cross with myself. The panic serves no purpose. How do I get out of the negative associations with my bed though? I love my bed when I sleep well!

I like that positive thought. I will keep that one.

DH is harsh with me but I need him to be harsh. It works everytime. He gets me out of the negative spiral. He is fed up I'm sure because he is getting up to DS3 in the night most of the time (I go up once or twice). He's been a rock. I couldn't have got this far without him.

But Becky you deserve him being a rock and being there for you - you would do the same for him.

Well if you were asleep within 5-10 minutes it definitely wasn?t the diazepam that got you to sleep.
When I had CBT for my insomnia I asked the same question ?how can I break the negative sleep associations with my bed?? The therapist said, you need to try and take the pressure off ? you are catastrophizing the ?not sleeping? ? heaping loads and loads of pressure upon yourself ? ?I MUST sleep, what if I DON?T sleep?, How will I cope? I will not get through the day, I will be an awful wife and mother, they will all get sick of me, maybe my DH will leave me? My life will fall apart. This insomnia will be the death of me??
That?s how my thoughts went? they ran away with themselves, until I imagined the absolute WORST case scenario happening. I blew it way out of proportion.
She tried to get me to see that even if I did not sleep, the world would not come crashing down.
She told me to adopt a ?spirit of curiousity? when I got into bed. I was a bit at that ? what on earth does that mean? But it was a way of saying ?take the pressure off, don?t let this sleep thing become bigger than it is?. Your panic and anxiety is not really about the sleep ? it?s actually about how you will cope the NEXT DAY, isn?t it? And the awful way you will feel the NEXT DAY if you don?t sleep.
The only way of breaking the negative sleep association with your bed is by, well, sleeping in it, and NOT lying awake in it. Hard as it seems, you must not lie awake for longer than 30minutes in your bed. The majority of your time in your bed must be spent sleeping. If you are lying awake, get up, make yourself a herbal tea, read for a little while (a gentle book, not some stimulating or horrifying thing!!) and then try again.
Eventually as you spend more time in bed asleep, the positive association will come back.

To help this you might thing about re-arranging your bedroom if you can? Can you move the bed, or turn it through 45 degrees? Or if not, can you swap sides with your DH? I did this, and it helped me to start to break down the negative associations.

Keep posting, thinking of you x

Becky sorry about all the bossy advice (feel free to ignore me!!) but do you keep a notebook of your PSTs, and also a record of the nights with dates of when you?ve not slept well, what medication you?ve taken etc. If you keep a record you will probably start to notice the periods of good sleep get longer and longer and the bad nights get fewer and fewer. Also you will notice the times you need to take a diazepam get more and more infrequent. It?s also very helpful to spot patterns. For me it seemed to be Sunday nights. I would consistently sleep badly on a Sunday night and realised I was probably subconsciously worrying about the new week, the nursery run, the traffic, work etc.

Keep a note of your PSTs in your notebook too. And read them a lot. Keep adding to them. Even if they are similar to previous ones, write them down! Just the process of thinking up new ones helps to re-set your subconscious. You can write down your negative sleep thoughts too ? and then analyse them to see how they may be exaggerated or illogical. You can also think up a PST to counter the NST.

If you?re like me you will be quite teary following a bad night. Also lacking in energy. Try to be kind to yourself, and keep your day very simple cutting out all the non-essentials. Write down what you are going to do for DS?s tea ? can you just get something out the freezer, that?s what I do ?even-- sometimes on good days. And maybe treat yourself and DH to a take away. If you get a spare 20 minutes try to sit out in the sunshine? this helps regulate your circadian rhythm and also melatonin production.

Regarding your DH ? I wish our two DHs could chat together! I?m sure they would really empathise with each other! Must be tough supporting a couple of wobbly insomniacs! However, willsurvive is right ? you would do the same for him, and you are a team, that?s what he signed up to when he married you ?for better or worse, in sickness and in health?. There may come a time when he is ill for some reason, and you will be in a position to support him just as he is supporting you at the moment. And don?t feel bad about him getting up for DS3. He is just as much his son as yours. It?s not like you are being lazy. You need this support right now. My DH usually gets up for DD in the night. The other night I got up for her, and it took me nearly 2 hrs to get back to sleep afterwards. DH ? takes him about 2 seconds! Grrrr !!

Oh my god those are my exact thoughts when I can't sleep! And my panic is about the next day. DH keeps telling me I should get up when I can't sleep, read etc, but I say to him 'but then it'll be later and later and I'll panic more'. But perhaps I ought to try it.

GetDown Sundays are my worst too. This time around it was a Sunday and the beginning of term so all the chaos of getting everyone up, etc.

I have started a notebook by the bed and at the end of each day I write down good things about the day. This morning I also wrote some thoughts about why I want to get better, etc. I've got a list of PSTs but they are hidden in the wardrobe as DS1 can read now and I don't want him to see them! I might write them down in my notebook. I've also got Paul McKenna's I Can Make You Sleep which has helped me hugely over the last few weeks.

These poor DHs! Mine is so busy with his work at the mo. too so I feel so bad for waking him up at 3am in a panic.

It?s so hard to get up when you are lying awake because you think ?but if I lie here I have a chance of falling asleep, if I get up I have zero chance of falling asleep?. I do understand because that is how I felt too. I thought, if I just lie down at least I am resting my body even if not my mind.

However, to break the negative association with your bed, you really need to be out of your bed when you are awake, ideally out of your bedroom. Can you get comfy on the sofa, even bring a blanket down, you may find you more easily fall asleep on the sofa than in your bed. The main thing is to bring your anxiety levels right down before you even attempt to get back into bed. Listen to Paul Mckenna on your ipod to help bring down your anxiety. Do whatever works for you ? deep breathing, muscle clenching and relaxing, whatever.

As you lie in bed just try and think about something neutral. Sometimes I try and think of combination of baby names I like i.e. first and middle names, with our surname. Sometimes I try and bore myself by thinking about planning meals for the week. If you find your mind starts wandering back to the sleep, keep switching it back to what you were thinking about before. But don?t get cross with yourself. Just gently bring yourself back.

It is so so hard, but you will get there. I?ve said it before but trying not to worry about sleep is like trying not to think of an elephant. As soon as you try and not think of it, there it is ? the elephant! As time goes by it does get easier, you just have to grit your teeth through the rough patches.

Thanks GetDown I will try to get rid of that elephant! Off to pick up DS2 now and go with him and DS3 to a surestart dropin. Trying to keep busy

How are you today Becky?

Hi GetDown I slept well last night after a wobbly start. I was thinking about all your advice last night. I went to bed, very tired, felt myself going but the anxiety was stopping that final tip into sleep and I was starting to feel so cross and upset with myself. But I got up, took deep breaths, got back into bed, put the ipod on, and after that I must have finally gone to sleep and then slept well until 6.15am when DS3 woke me up!

But I still wake up with that horrible sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, dreading getting up, dissapointment in how I've turned sleep into such a big issue, how every night seems to be such a big effort to deal with. I just want it to go away. I wish I could just flick a switch and be the old me before DS3 when I just went to bed and went to sleep - I think I'd have a bad night about twice a year! And we're talking 6 hours sleep instead of 8 being my old definition of a bad night. It seems to go in cycles at the moment. I'll have a week or so of good / normal sleep and then a bad night and have to fight back up again to get back to normal. Then another bad night. I just want it to end! I want to focus my energy on the DSs not on me.

Sorry to waffle and wallow! I do feel better than I did yesterday and I know I need to hold on to that thought. I know the only way out is to be positive and not negative.

How are you doing anyway? You should set yourself up as a CBT person / sleep councellor I reckon! I know the methods work. I wonder how Arcadia is doing too?

I'm doing well thanks - that's why I've gone quiet, don't want to tempt fate! But the last few nights I've slept really well. I don't have anxiety around sleep any more really and haven't felt anxious in the day for a long time, so it's been a gradual improvement. But I've arranged to see a CBT therapist next week to deal with some other stuff and will also do some work around sleep just in case.
Hope you improve too, remember it's up and down!

Hi becky I?m really glad you got some sleep last night. Because you were so tired you would have slept more deeply than normal, so even if you didn?t have as many hours as you?d ideally like, your body will have had what it needed. Well done for not giving into the panic. You did the right thing to get up, calm yourself down and then try again. If you?d have stayed in bed the feelings of frustration / upset / despair would have built and built and you?d have got into a state. Buy getting up you broke that negative spiral. So WELL DONE! And you didn?t take a diazepam! Hooray!

I know what you mean about sleep becoming such a big issue. But eventually that massive ?elephant? will become smaller and smaller, and eventually you will not be thinking about it at all. I used to think about sleep ALL the time when I was really bad. Dreading, absolutely dreading it getting dark, as I knew it would be the same horrible night to get through again. However, now I hardly ever think about it! I just get drowsy, get into bed at the end of the day ?run through my crazy rituals?and just fall asleep! Not that I don?t have any bad nights any more ? I had a bad night on Friday, but I tried not to focus on it, and I slept well on the Saturday night. I used to have a bad night and then wail, literally WAIL to my DH ?I just want this to end! When will I be normal again??. Now I just try to shrug it off and concentrate on just getting through the day, trying not to think about the next night, or whether this will be the start of another downward spiral.

You are not waffling or wallowing. I really feel so much empathy with you as I really know just what you are experiencing, and so much want to share how I got through it myself. I?m no counsellor, but I do have a degree in psychology! (always thought I?d like to do something with it ? but never have had the confidence!). I?m not an expert, just a ?normal? person, with some experience of post natal insomnia, and a demanding toddler!

Yes I wonder what happened to Arcadia haven?t seen her around here for a while?.

Ahh, there she is!!

Hi arcadia!

Hi there I'm good thanks except DD is crying a lot and driving me mad. There's always something!

Thanks. I do feel good about last night if I consider that I did sleep and I did actually sleep very well. I'm on the 'upward' bit now I hope.

My mum is here today and she's very grounded. She says that I have to just 'let go' of this worry and to realise that a bad night is not the end of the world (although that is very difficult for me to believe). I feel that I do have to just 'let go' in my head and I will feel piles better. I did suffer from proper insomnia at the start of all this, back in January, and it scared me (esp when I was taking ADs as they made it 10 time worse) but I don't have that now as when I do sleep I sleep really well and even when I hear DS3 in the night I can now get back off to sleep. The bad nights are created by anxiety in my opinion so I can control that. I think GetDown one of your sleep thoughts was 'if the mind can create the problem it can solve it' or similar.

Arcadia do you still take that amino acid supplement? I can't remember what it is called. Does it help at all? How did you get your CBT? Is it on the NHS? I wonder whether a bit of CBT would help me too. I did attend a transition into motherhood course which had elements of CBT for coping with stress and depression which was brilliant but it was very general.

Hi BBL I started taking tryptophan at night and I seemed to have a big improvement in my mood at that time but don't know if it helped my sleep or not. Am not taking it at the moment (not sure why, just haven't got round to it!). Still taking the high dose vit b. TBH I got bored of being stressed about the sleep and got tired! Wierdly DD being ill then me being ill seems to have helped too as I got so tired I was sleeping well. I still seem to wake quite frequently at night but so does DP and I seem to get back off OK. Avoid thinking in terms of 'good' or 'bad' or that you've 'done well' or 'done badly' in relation to sleep. It's just something that happens. Remember that your body and subconscious has wisdom beyond your conscious mind and will eventually get the sleep it needs.
I still take nytol some nights but have breaks from it. Don't feel that I'm getting addicted. GP etc. don't seem to be concerned about me taking it - I believe it's milder than the hypnotics.
Also have started swimming and yoga again. Even if I don't sleep well after one of those I think to myself that the overall effect even if gradual is positive so not too much pressure on any one night.
Out of frustration with the NHS am finally going private. GP failed to refer me before and there is now a 6 month wait. Ludicrous! Have spoken to a CBT therapist on the phone yesterday and we 'clicked' so I'm going to her next week and give it a try. I want some one-to-one support as well so prefer this to the group/book/self-learning option.
I hope it will be helpful - will let you know.
Take care -and try and find something new to worry about (other than sleep)! I find I''m starting to worry about going back to work now - there's always something!

What work do you do? I start work a week on Monday but I am a freelancer (academic publishing) so I work at home. I'm hoping this will help keep my mind off the sleep worries and give me something to focus on. My boss is coming over a week on Friday to talk about work (eeeekk!). I have no idea how on earth I am going to fit work in with the DSs and washing, cleaning, ironing, school runs etc but I need work back again. Before I had DS3 I was working like mad and thriving on it. I was so happy and content with life, everything was great. I want to be back to that again! I used to work every evening after everyone was in bed and then conk out in bed until the morning! I take the vit B too and I do find they help my mood a lot (despite the current wobble).

i'm a solicitor. i think the lack of mental stimulation is a factor - what you say seems to confirm this. i used to be mentally tired at the end of a day but now am not, just physically. i really miss using my brain.
have to go now!

Hi Fellow Sleeploving Friends, just an update. I've slept really well the last three nights, despite going to bed thinking 'oh-oh' and spending a disproportionate amount of time in the day thinking about sleep so I'm feeling much, much better right now. I'm supposed to be going out on Saturday night and I'm worried about that! Sigh. It never ends. The usual worries: will I get to sleep when I get in? Will I feel totally knackered on Sunday? Will I sleep on Sunday night? Ahhhh. Also, now this probably sounds really wimpy but I find that if I have one glass of wine in the evening I get to sleep easier than without because, well naturally, it relaxes me, but I don't want to become an alcoholic! I know one glass of wine is nothing but I don't normally drink much at all (if I do drink more than one glass then my sleep is crap). Am I just being a total worry-wort?

hey becky i noticed the same thing about the wine this week - slept really well previous couple of nights after one small glass of wine and not quite so well last night after no wine! I agree, any more and I would sleep worse. But like you I don't feel I should do it every night so won't. I'm still taking the nytol too so will start cutting that down soon (probably when I start the CBT).
Have found the pukka night time herbal tea quite effective - maybe you could try that one?
DD is sleeping through again - Hurray! May not last though ... (have to say that, don't want to tempt fate).

Arcadia I drink pukka tea too! It's part of my bedtime routine - 9.30pm pukka tea, piece of orange chocolate, half an hour reading my book before bed! I just like the taste of it too.

DS3 not sleeping through yet. He woke 1.30am and 4.10am. That's about average for him Your DD is just a bit younger than my DS3 isn't she? He's 5 1/2 months and at the moment loving solid food and chatting away to himself like mad (sat on my knee now going ahhhh oohhhh grrggggg).

She's nearly 5 months old. I have bedtime routine too which includes giving her a dream feed around 10.15 which I find relaxes me for bed too.
She's cried a lot in the day this week so today I'm trying to sort out her naps - have realised she cries when tired and I miss the cues then she gets more worked up as I try to entertain her! So that may improve the daytimes as she seems settled today.
Lovely weather - really enjoying it! Grabbing a quick lunch before she wakes up...
Glad you've been sleeping better ag
ain. Do you want me to report back on the CBT next week?

Yes please do tell me all about it! I'm very interested in it as I think there is a lot in it even though a lot of it seems 'common sense'. I learnt a few CBT techniques from my group sessions with other PND sufferers which I found really interesting.

DS1 used to get very tired very quickly and go into total meltdown if I didn't put him in his cot straight away! It took me a while to learn that but now with DS3 I spot the signs (most of the time!). DS3 is in bed now so I'm going to have lunch and make the most of some me-time if I can.

I am sleeping better, and have had a really good few days being busy and enjoying the weather, but the anxiety is always there in the background and it really annoys me, I get so cross with myself for letting something so silly get to me. I do practice some techniques in Paul McKenna's I Can Make You Sleep book such as letting myself feel the anxiety rather than fighting it and then it does fade. Another one is asking myself 'why do I feel anxious?', 'In case I don't sleep well tonight,' then you need to keep asking 'Why does that bother you?', 'because I'll be crap tomorrow', 'why does that bother you?' etc until you get to a positive answer (for me it is 'So I can be a good mum to my boys and enjoy life with them') and the idea is that the anxiety fades away. It does help. I think these are CBT techniques.