Remind me please, what is the point in life?

[Dumbledoresgirl]

Please don't bring religion into it because I have tried religion and don't buy it anymore.

I was talking to dh this morning and told him that at every stage of life, at every great life event, those moments that are supposed to bring happiness and balance out the nastier side of life, I have felt only a barrage of worry, stress and fear.

I am probably more than half way through my life and I cannot see my naturally pessimistic view of life changing so I need something to hang on, to keep me going.

I am not suicidal or anything, just feeling very negative at the moment.

Can you remind me what it is all about? What is the point?

sometimes you have to find a point , it doens;t find you

i found childbirth education/doualing.

that gave me a wonderful direction and focus i had been lacking

for you, it might be painting, or writing or rock climbing

also, you are not obliged to enjoy every second of every day

life can be hard, stressful and difficult, that's ok too

take time out to find stuff to do that brings you joy

I hate that feeling of life having no meaning or purpose, it is depression talking of course, seems to be its favourite theme. You have bipolar don't you? Think I recognise you from old days of MDF?

The plus side is that an episode of bipolar depression should be self-limiting, should have a beginning and an end like the common cold - and in the middle anything that improves the moment, if you are living moment by moment, could become the point for the time being?

No, I am not the person you are thinking of. I have spoken to mental health workers (counsellors) on a couple of occasions in my life and I have a very bad lifelimiting phobia which should be treated but never has been, but apart from that, I have no formal diagnosis of depression.

How I feel today is not unusual for me, though obviously a bit worse than normal hence posting. I have a very pessimistic, fearful outlook on life and I am sure I would rate as low level depressed all the time, but mostly I manage.

I know about looking for the things that give me joy and I do try to do that. But sometimes, the overall gloom seems larger than even momentary pleasures. I wish I could understand what motivates people to keep going every day.

DDG, sorry to hear you're having a bad day. I have been through periods of life feeling a little like you do - the "what is it all about anyway" phases, I called them, when I couldn't imagine what the point of going on was. Not suicidal but feeling bleak and hopeless and futureless, iyswim. Some days I even used to get under my bed (frame bed) and not want to come out.

For me, the thing that made the difference was a change in the foods I ate. Once I stopped eating certain foods that didn't agree with me, lots of things changed - no more IBS, no more acid reflux, no more depressive "what is it all about" black periods. I am not saying that it would work for you, you might have already tried it - but if you haven't, then it could be something to try? If you want to know more, I will tell you - but if it's not something that you have an interest in, that's fine.

It can't harm to know what foods you avoid. Though I have to tell you I am hopeless at keeping to diets! Also, do you feel some of your mental health issues were linked to IBS? I feel sure that my current mental state is caused by some physical issues I have, though it is not IBS.

What you describe sounds just like me. I can rise above it most of the time, but I know if ever I filled in a personality test I would come out as pessimistic and anxious. I think that is just part of who I am. But every so often the pessimism and anxiety becomes all of whom I am.

I know I am serving a purpose raising my children right now, but they are growing up and I can foresee a time when they are gone and then what will I be?

I said to dh today, if we could choose to be born, I wonder how many of us would? I cna imagine a lot of people would want to take on the adventure of life, but I feel equally sure that, given the choice, I would rather not have been born.

i thin you are chronically depressed and really need to push for help and for help with your phobia, i know what it is, and it must be awful

you can change things, you might always be someone who is a bit pessimistic, or glass hafl empty, but you might be able to feel better and happier than you are right now

what do you like doing/

Thanks Lulu, though the phobia is less obvious now the children are older. As long as I can stay away from triggers... One day I will get it back to how it was before I had children and I think that will be as good as any cure on offer. But then, you may remember my cynicism that anything could bring about a cure.

Do you really think I sound bad enough to need treatment? This is a bad day, and I am still functioning. I guess I am afraid of drugs and the stigma of mental illness.

OK - well this might sound wacko but it worked really well for me, and for other people I know, so see how you feel about it.

I am a blood scientist and when I saw the book "Eat right for your (blood) Type" I thought "yeah right, load of bollox" but read it anyway with a view to scoff. But - reading my blood type foods to avoid rang some interesting bells - I had spent much of my life up until reading this book feeling nauseous after about 1/3 of the meals I ate. I was also tired and fog-brained in the afternoons, usually an hour after lunch. And I had noticed particularly that roast chicken and roast pork made me feel really quite unwell already, so when I read that these were food I wasn't supposed to eat, I thought "OK, what else?" My blood group is B - the main foods I avoid are wheat, chicken, tomato and pork (there are others) and the difference to my life has been amazing, truly. No more fog-brain, no more post-meal nausea, no more falling asleep on computer keyboard (unless late night the night before ), no more gut issues as mentioned before and no more black depressive stuff. So - a possibility for you?

There are specific nutrient deficiencies that can exacerbate biochemical depressiveness - zinc is one for example. Stress causes a higher than normal usage of zinc, as does illness, so if you find that you get worse after periods of stress or illness, that is another avenue to look at - but if you choose to try that, please take a multi-mineral/vitamin supplement rather than just zinc as you can unbalance your intake of other minerals by only supplementing one (competitive absorption issues)

Anyway - that's my story - hope it helps!

Just as a matter of interest, are your health issues joint/inflammation related?

See? Pessimistic or cure and fearful of treatment - that last post sums up my entire life!

x-posted with you there, DDG

well, yes i do, not because i think you are seriously unwell, but because you have issues that are stopping you living life how you want to , and are controlling the way you live and you are miserable

there is no shame in seeking help

none at all

i've been there!

1 in 4 people have some sort of mental health issue, so it's not like it's only you

you need to care more about living a nice fulfilled life than what other people think!

being able to find happiness and joy in simple things and being happy in your own skin are such crucial things to being happy and content

you deserve to feel that

Argh, just had a hissy fit alienating whole family in one go, and broke my 2 glass mixing bowls, one of which was only replaced at Christmas.

Now I really want to just go and hide.

I won't suggest what I did quite a few years ago now.

Hello Moondog, long time no see. You are one of few Mners I think of sometimes in RL.

No, don't bother, I know what you mean and I can't do it because I have completely lost all grip on myself.

Bless you DG.
I think you have just got buried underneath servicing other people's needs. Who wouldn't after 4 kids and years at home.

It's about baby steps, setting tiny goals.

I have been through hell over the last few years (nothing i discuss on MN) and this is what has kept me going. One small goal at a time.

Not doing things leads to a vicious circle of wanting to try even less.
Action engenders hope.

Now I am crying. In my mind you are so capable and strong, going places I would never go, filling your life with so much, living life to the full. Yet now you say all this time I have "known" you, you have been going through hell. So even someone who seems so together is not really.

There is no hope for me.

Ah, don't be daft!Life is full of pleasure and pain-it's a seesaw, sometimes a lot of pain, sometimes a lot of pleasure.
It's called living.
The older I grow the more I understand that we all have a personal sadness or tragedy.
Without it the pleasurable moments would not be so tangible in any case so it serves a purpose and reminds us how fragile it all is and how brief our stay on earth is.

I think the biggest mistake people make (and this has been a revelation to me and understood in context of the mSc I have just finished) is that people wait for a magical time when they 'feel better about themselves' before trying something new.

It could be losing weight, starting to exercise, getting a job , going to try out something new-anything.

You have to grit your teeth and just try it.

Your youngest must be what, 9 by now?
What are you ding in the day?
Even if not a job, you coudl easily enroll for a class of some sort.

My mother (65) is in the second year of a degree and having a ball.

I understand what you mean. I had my first brush with a counsellor (actually a full blown psychiatrist courtesy of my parents ) when I was 17 - really bad depression, reached the point of doing nothing, not even going to school, etc. Around the same time, I read The Count of Monte Cristo and gained a great piece of wisdom from that book. "Only a man who has felt ultimate despair is capable of feeling ultimate bliss" That helped me more than any analysis would have.

Trouble is, I seem to greet everything with suspicion and anxiety. I can't think of a time when I was blissfully happy - ever. If I had any prospect of being happy doing something, I would do it, but if even happy times like first love, childbirth etc are tinged with fear and unhappiness, the prospect of new things is not as appealing.

My youngest is only just 7 btw. Still in KS1. Well, that's my excuse anyway. Pathetic, isn't it?

You have to remember to depersonalsie the whole fear thing you experience.
Who doesn't dread something new?
Who doesn't lie awake at night thinking dark thoguhts?
Who doesn't feel overcome by a sense of overwhelming doom when waking with a hangover (well, maybe not you, as I don't think you drink a lot)

Erica Jong ('Fear of Flying')siad, way back in the 60s'Feel the fear and do it anyway'

From a logical point of view, not changing your life is going to maintain your current less than ideal state of mental health, so fuck it, try something new to break the pattern.

What do you do all day when they are at school?

The point of life is not dying that aprticular day and trying to ensure at least a few people remember you as vaguely OK when you snuffle off

Frankly I can't see there's more to it, am religioous and still can't.

Oh and Dg (I am of course Peachy) I don't know what your phobia is but I have three that really affect my life: naketys 9the eharest I can get to typing the word- long reptiles no legs) and beleive it or not the fear of even seeing a picture can be quite affecting; making telephone calls- hugely problematic at this stage, and being shouted at- a hangover from my childhood that limits what I can achieve quite markedly.

They need addressing but never have been either and it never even really occurred to me so the thread has inspired me to chat to DH about that.
It may nothappen as when I have been offered counselling before it ahs never been with childcare so was impossible. But its worth a shot, and dh is working from home sometimes now.
So thank you.

I was given a piece of paper with this on years ago and it still hangs above my desk, thin and faded now but still always in my thoughts.It's from Ralph Waldo Emerson

"To laugh often and love much; to win the respect of intellingent persons and the affection of children; to earn the approbation of honest citizens and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty; to find the best in others; to give of one's self; to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to have played and laughed with enthusiasm and sung with exultation; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived - this is to have succeeded."

It doesn't mean thoguh that just being is enough. You have to get out there and make your own future.It won't come looking for you.

MD's advice is good

I started soemthing new a few weeks back- just exercising at a gym- and the action of actually doing soemthing new has been far mroe reward than teh exercise which is normally balanced by a compelte lack of food control

We can't control a lot of our lives and I think phobias are linked to that- when I am really up mine almost disappear except the telephone one (which is mroe complex and due to needing to see peoples face to talk), but as MD says we can't always be up as harships hit us all.

But we can massively up our sense of control by doing soemthing small towards regaining it

Oh Clarissimo, that is not what you are supposed to say as a believer . I am not sure I know enough people to make much of an impact on them.

Moondog, I do housework mainly. I have a huge house, in a terrible state of un-decoratedness (I know, no such word) and every day is a battle to achieve the bare minimum to keep the house livable in. If I had spare time, there are (literally) a dozen rooms that need decorating.

Then I have a huge garden which I could work in permanently and still not maintain properly. My project for this year is a veggie plot. We have given over about 15 yards by 7 yards to it though I have only dug over about 6 square yards so far, and bought the seed. But that will take up some time in the coming weeks as I am totally inept at gardening.

Then I fit in hobbies - all solitary activities. Reading, writing, knitting sometimes, cross stitch at the moment, historical research (in my dreams, not done any since 1999 but there are projects in my head and unfinished in files)

Then I cook and bake. Make all our own bread, cakes etc, cook a meal from scratch every night.

Very, very occasionally, I go for coffee with someone or have them here.

There is always ironing, of course!

And at 3pm, I fetch my youngest children and begin the rounds of homework, clubs and music practice as well as being a listening ear to the latest crisis.

None of it is earth shattering stuff. I am a feminist's nightmare - sorry. but it was my choice to live like this. I dug my own rut, enjoyed it for a while, would enjoy it still if people didn't suggest I should be earning a living but also feel I am not making a mark anywhere and should climb out of my rut. But.....but but, well you don't want to read the excuses.

you know what always makes me think of you moondog, it was your passion following your desire to do SALT. It was almost infectious you know .

Dumbledore, I've said it on here before but I think a life lived with phobias is like making a jail for yourself and throwing away the key. No matter how random the phobias are, the fact that it can interfere with daily life is what makes them so damaging.

I think it is worth investigating why you can't see the positive going forward. Can you even envisage a life without the phobia? Can you remember what that feels like? Maybe you are frightened to let all your fear go?