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Can they take my baby at birth?

76 replies

nickname123 · 15/01/2010 14:56

My story;
I'm 25 and I have a 3 year old son who I've never spent a day without,
his dad left when he was a few weeks old and I've cared for him alone since then.
I've gained qualifications in this time and believe I've set up a nice home for him.
However, back in my teen years I suffered depression and attempted suicide several
times after a great loss in my life. At one point I took antidepressants and after 3 days
it was clear I had reacted badly to them as I had never felt so low in my life, so I took
the whole packet of them, I then told someone about it and I ended up on on psychiatric ward for 3 days.
They disgnosed me with adjustment disorder and I went home and had a psychiatrist who I saw every week.
I never used any medication for depression I recovered over time.
I haven't felt any serious depressive periods since about aged 18 or 19.
When I had my son I believe he cured me completely as he became the light of my life bassically
and being a mother has really completed me.
The social services did an assesment when he was born and said we were fine and discharged us.

Last year I fell pregnant after a very short liason with a guy a used to know.
I am now 7 monthes pregnant and still single.
Although it's not an ideal situation that I would have planned, I see myself having these two children
(and no more) and us all still having a good life and I'm okay with this.

The problem;
Whilst in hospital recently the consultant saw old scars on my arms from self harm I did about
8 years ago (they were deep cuts admittedly and I had overactive scar tissue in the healing
process which made them look a lot worse).
She then saw that I had been an 'inpatient' in my history
(the 3 day psychiatric ward stay which again was back in my teens) and
despite me telling her that I'm now fine and well, she said that she would have to refer me to the
Perinatal Maternal Health Team, because of my 'psychiatric problems'.
She told some other nurses and they gathered in a room and instantly
I could see they were all looking at me very sympathetically, even when I spoke they were looking
at me as if I was ill and it was all so uncomfortable, like, alienating.
Then they started to assure me that I could just go to a mother and baby unit when my baby is
born to be assessed properly, and I said 'what about my 3 yr old son, can he come'? and they went silent.
So obviously he would be seperated from me and what? in some foster care? I told them I have looked after
my son alone since he was born and I have been fine and not suffered any mental illness, but they
wouldn't be convinced.
They said there's a very high risk of childbirth brining back psychiatric problems.

I feel like I can't trust them, I may go into hospital and told that I cannot leave with my child and
that would be traumatic.
I don't know how serious this is, but I do know a girl in recent years here had her baby immediately taken a way for
a few weeks because of past depression, before a judge ordered that she as the mother should have her baby back.

How can they so casually play god in our lives like this? The first few weeks will be so important to
get breastfeeding and bonding established, but they want to put us in some alien place and separate my son
from me just to 'assess me'. If I say no, I know they wont let me take my baby home.

I feel like just running away, but I don't know how at risk I am of them actually doing all theyre threatening to.

Help?

OP posts:
nickname123 · 17/01/2010 14:38

As for my housing now, I have a nice 3 bed house, rented privately, one room ready for my new baby.
I am very well.
I was only unwell when I had to live as a childless mother, I have been well since being mother to my 3 yr old son.
I can prove I've been stable, I've completed year long fulltime college courses.
My son is upto date with all his medical things, I successfully breastfed him for over 2 years. We are very close he couldn't be without me and visa versa.
We're doing well.
Apart from the threat of them coming near me which is incredibly stressfull.

OP posts:
butterscotch · 17/01/2010 15:10

I think you need to get some advice professionally nickname, CAB might be the best place. If you trust you social worker then talk to them, obviously what happened 8yrs ago was horrendous and sounds very unfair. It also sounds like you don't have supportive family around you? I hope you do have or some friends that will help you.
You are well now, you have a healthy 3yr old.
Do you have care sorted for when you have your baby?
I think most of the time honestly they will try to keep you together they might offer extra support whether it is wanted/needed is another matter.
The fact that you have your private rented house, life is obviously stable for you currently, all goes in your favour.
Nananina says you can't phone social services without giving details which is bull as my friend did it! They might ask awarkward questions but you don't have to answer you can always terminate the call.
Please get some help and support before making a rash decision to leave the country/area your in it would be distrubtive to all of you and hard when you have a new born to contend with.
I wish I was nearby to have a coffee and a proper chat, please take care x

ShinyAndNew · 17/01/2010 15:28

I'm so sorry for what happened with your first child. It does sound terribly unfair. It doesn't mean that history is going to repeat itself though. I have suffered depression, though nowhere near as bad as you describe, I do understand that just getting out of bed requires a huge amount of effort and energy. You are not in that place anymore. You much more equipped to question things and fight for your rights this time. You should have been given much support last time. But this time you have more experience of the system. You know to question things etc.

Get some legal advice. Get in touch with JH's support group (linked to earlier). Go and see your GP, ask if he will help you.

Where are you in the country? Perhaps there would be someone on here close enough to you to support you with this, attend meetings etc with you for moral support.

nickname123 · 17/01/2010 16:06

I have my younger sister actually moving in with me soon, especially so she will be with me throughout later pregnancy and there for when I have the baby. She is 21 and brilliant with my 3 yr old.

I don't have a social worker, my health visitor and midwife understood that I wanted to avoid any kind of involvement with them.
But this consultant looks to be bringing them back in by referring me to the team that deals with 'people with serious mental health issues'
I have never had a CPN or any support for mental illness, I only had a psychologist to speak to as a teenager many years ago.
I have lived like any perfectly well person for years now.

I will definately arrange to go see my doctor first thing money morning and explain everything.
But my medical history saying overdose, overdose, overdose, overdose isn't great for me.
They tend to talk to me normally before they see that

OP posts:
missmoopy · 17/01/2010 16:28

skidoodle clearly has issue with social workers. most of us want to help families stay together, and are not here to punish you. you sound like you are coping with parenthood just fine and i am sure if it gets as far as an assessment, which i doubt it will, any social worker will see that too.

butterscotch · 17/01/2010 17:29

Sounds like having your sister with you will mean you have support when the baby is born I can't see why they would object or have any reason to try to take your child away!
Please speak to HV/Doctor/Midwife and get their support and take your sister with you to other appointments for support!

Good luck and please keep us informed how you are going!

ladylush · 17/01/2010 18:34

nickname - very sorry to hear about your first child being taken away That is terrible but imo doesn't change what you need to do right now.

mamadoc · 17/01/2010 20:12

OK I understand better now why you are more frightened even than most people would be in your circumstances but I still don't think it changes anything.
Your situation is completely different now. You are completely different, older and wiser, an experienced mother. It doesn't matter that you don't have a partner.
I would definitely recommend you getting an advocate so you don't feel so alone in all this. Google advocacy or try your local branch of MIND.
Somehow you need to try to protect yourself from the stress of it all making you unwell again. Try to get some time for yourself to relax exercise, read, hot bath whatever works for you.
Honestly it is so unlikely that they will send you to a mother & baby unit or take your baby away. The obstetrician/midwife should not have scared you by mentioning that. These are for people who are actively unwell psychotic or suicidal at the time of the birth not for someone who had a period of depression a long time ago. They are obliged to ask social services to do a check but it is likely to be just a one off interview.

willsurvivethis · 17/01/2010 20:25

I think what you have so bravely and honestly written would be fair reason for social services to check you are coping ok - but if you are coping ok there would be no need for them to do anything else.

willsurvivethis · 17/01/2010 20:33

It's madmouse by the way - posted before on this thread

GetDownYouWillFall · 17/01/2010 20:48

nickname - I am so sorry to hear about your tragic story with your first born. That is really distressing I can't believe they would threaten things like "they won't write to you if you refuse to sign the adoption papers" . I hope you do still have contact with your 8yo?
Just wanted to add from my experience something - I went into a mother and baby unit for 3 months. i was absolutely terrified, but it actually was not a bad place - very safe environment where you could not harm yourself, and where you were given help in how to look after your baby. I understand your worry about what would happen to your 3yo. Would your sister be willing to care for him?
I met another girl in the mother and baby unit with me. She was a single parent and social services also got a care order to take her son away. I am very happy to say she won her case, and now is happily looking after him herself - just to say that SS do not always win.

ShinyAndNew · 19/01/2010 11:10

How are things going? Have you spoken to anyone yet?

butterscotch · 20/01/2010 08:01

Been thinking about you nickname and wondering how your getting on? x

nickname123 · 26/01/2010 15:40

Hello it's me :-p

I just managed to get online as I spilt juice all over my laptop last week so I will only occasionally get online now, boo

I have decided just to not co-operate with them at all.
I will get on with my cookery and childcare courses and take my son to mums and tots, and see my usual support workers and go to all my appointments.
But I will NOT go and see this consultant, as I will explain to my doctor, I plan on not having anything to do with them, I want no involvement with anyone who's under the impression that I have 'mental health issues'.
So I will explain this all to my doctor that they won't be coming into my house and I won't be going to their appointments.

smiles
I'm really happy that I know how to deal with it now, just to completely avoid them.
If I get involved with these people they could really drag me into the whole 'i'm a mentally ill person' game.
They could visit me on a bad day and say that I'm 'unwell mentally' or whatever.

I'm staying away.

I plan on having the support of my doctor as she is really nice and she said my period of depression back all those years ago was understandable with my son being taken.

I won't waste my time with the mental health services now though.

I know everyone in here won't agree, but I know all too well the type of power mental health services can have over a person's life because someone in my family has been under their care for a long time and I just want to get on and have a normal life without all that crap, not constantly looking over my shoulder worrying what they think of how i'm acting and what i'm doing.

OP posts:
nickname123 · 26/01/2010 15:43

I also have somewhere to flee to when I'm due to give birth if I find out they have any weird plans.
In the meantime I'll plan to stay at home and have a homebirth though like I want to.

OP posts:
Sakura · 28/01/2010 08:21

skidooddle"The number of people (probably correctly) advising the OP to co-operate with this witchhunt, just so she keeps on the right side of people who have far too much power over her is really chilling"

Horrendous isn't it.

nickname, I would contact that JohnHemming (he sometimes posts on here I think) He seems to be really passionate about people in your position. There is lots of good advice on here.
The whole situation sends chills down my spine. As if pregnancy isn't stressful enough anyway.

Sakura · 28/01/2010 08:37

I can't believe that a social worker on here, mamadoc, has actually stated that you have to "play along" with them. Mamadoc you do realise you are admitting how fucked up the system is, don't you? If you be assertive the bullies go in for the kill so you'd better act passive and compliant if you want to boost your chances of keeping your child. Fucked up.

OP, if you feel that keeping away from those people will be best for you then just do it .
You have to do whats best for you now not pander to people.
What happened to you with your first child is so breathtakingly sad. I'm so angry for you. And so angry, after reading your story, about the people on here who go on about social workers being benign influences. The more I read, the more I know they are not.

You sound like you have plenty of support and that you, personally, are going to be fine so don't worry too much. I just feel sad for the next pregnant girl who crosses their path is not as clued up as you

nickname123 · 28/01/2010 15:30

Just to update you guyes (I was expecting posts about the dangers of not co-operating btw)
But I spoke to my doctor!
It was brilliant :-D

My actual GP said I do not have to take part in ANY of their assessments! Unless I'm ill enough to be sectioned which i'm obviously not.
I'm so glad she told me that.

Then I said to her 'well I heard it was your decision to actually refer me to these people' and she said 'yes' and I said; '...well can you; not?1
And she looked at me and said 'i'm not going to to'
and explained that she saw no substantial reason to, so she is writing to the consultant to say I will not be referred :-D
but she and the health visitor will take care of me.

I'm so happy :-D

Thankgod for my doctor listening to ME.

OP posts:
nickname123 · 28/01/2010 15:38

Sakura thanks
Can you imagine if I'd played along with that consultant and said 'yeah i have mental health issues, i agree i might have a breakdown, oh yea put me in a mother and baby unit, whatever'
as a direct result of then letting myself be classed as mentally ill i would then have the social services on my back.
Depending on the social worker and their case load and what when why how i felt on the precise day they visited they could write negative things about me, which could lead to a whole can of worms and possibly my kids being at risk of being eventually taken (probably for 'respite' if i was too trusting) which could then lead to care orders if i was really not on top of the game.
I can be a scatty person, i'm late for appointments now and then, i might have a day where the sink is filled with dishes and they happen to call by, all that stuff is so dangerous when built up in negatively written files.
Damn right I want nothing to do with them.

Thanks for everyone contributing to this thread.
My risk is over now and I'm going to have a normal pregnancy without being tagged as mentally ill.

OP posts:
willsurvivethis · 28/01/2010 17:17

Nickname just to say I'm so pleased to hear your news. Enjoy your pregnancy

bumpybecky · 28/01/2010 18:03

that is such good news nickname

knicknack · 28/01/2010 21:06

Hi i have been following your thread and at times in tears, i am so sorry for the way you had your other child taken it makes me so bloody angry for you but i didn't know what to say but now you have this great news i just want to say i'm so happy for you and you sound like an amazing mother and no one has the right to hold your past mental health against you. Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy

Sakura · 30/01/2010 06:57

nickname,
I'm so glad that you're going to be ok.

I cannot believe that a mother's ability to cope can be judged by irrelevant crap such as how tidy her house is. Its so backward because the reason her house may be messy in the first place is because she has been tending to her child. Because "tending to a baby" can't be measured, whereas a sink full of dishes can be, messiness one of the criterion for social workers to judge whether a woman is coping ok. So a mother who leaves her baby to cry while she does the hoovering is somehow considered a better mother: something is very wrong with that picture.

There needs to be some sort of service available to help mothers who may have problems coping. Something along the lines of what they have in France where the government pays for a cleaner and housekeeper to come to the mother's house so she can concentrate on her baby. Women need lots of practical help and comfort during pregnancy and childbirth so there's less chance of them slipping into depression or whatever. This kind of "monitoring" can only excacerbate her stress.

Anyway nickname, I'm so glad you are going to be ok. Your doctor sounds lovely

fionamc123 · 13/08/2015 07:36

I am very sorry to hear that you are under all this pressure. I know how scary it is having social services involved in your life they recently visited me and my children , when I was first told they were coming to do an assessment I was terrified and convinced my self they were going to take my children away . I know my children are loved and well cared for but I was afraid they wouldn't see that . But they are not there to take happy children from good mums they done one visit and closed the case.I am sure they will see you are to a good mum ,the way you talk about wanting to bond with the baby and not be seporated from them all points to your mothering capability.what ever you do, do not run away!!. They just want to cheak like they did with me and when you show them everything is fine they will leave you alone.I know how hard this is but try not to panic. Have confidence in your ability to parent and they will see that. You happy healthy son is your proof you can manage.. good luck im sure it will all be fine x

dickiedavisthunderthighs · 13/08/2015 07:40

Fiona this thread is five years old....