Can they take my baby at birth?

[nickname123]

My story;
I'm 25 and I have a 3 year old son who I've never spent a day without,
his dad left when he was a few weeks old and I've cared for him alone since then.
I've gained qualifications in this time and believe I've set up a nice home for him.
However, back in my teen years I suffered depression and attempted suicide several
times after a great loss in my life. At one point I took antidepressants and after 3 days
it was clear I had reacted badly to them as I had never felt so low in my life, so I took
the whole packet of them, I then told someone about it and I ended up on on psychiatric ward for 3 days.
They disgnosed me with adjustment disorder and I went home and had a psychiatrist who I saw every week.
I never used any medication for depression I recovered over time.
I haven't felt any serious depressive periods since about aged 18 or 19.
When I had my son I believe he cured me completely as he became the light of my life bassically
and being a mother has really completed me.
The social services did an assesment when he was born and said we were fine and discharged us.

Last year I fell pregnant after a very short liason with a guy a used to know.
I am now 7 monthes pregnant and still single.
Although it's not an ideal situation that I would have planned, I see myself having these two children
(and no more) and us all still having a good life and I'm okay with this.

The problem;
Whilst in hospital recently the consultant saw old scars on my arms from self harm I did about
8 years ago (they were deep cuts admittedly and I had overactive scar tissue in the healing
process which made them look a lot worse).
She then saw that I had been an 'inpatient' in my history
(the 3 day psychiatric ward stay which again was back in my teens) and
despite me telling her that I'm now fine and well, she said that she would have to refer me to the
Perinatal Maternal Health Team, because of my 'psychiatric problems'.
She told some other nurses and they gathered in a room and instantly
I could see they were all looking at me very sympathetically, even when I spoke they were looking
at me as if I was ill and it was all so uncomfortable, like, alienating.
Then they started to assure me that I could just go to a mother and baby unit when my baby is
born to be assessed properly, and I said 'what about my 3 yr old son, can he come'? and they went silent.
So obviously he would be seperated from me and what? in some foster care? I told them I have looked after
my son alone since he was born and I have been fine and not suffered any mental illness, but they
wouldn't be convinced.
They said there's a very high risk of childbirth brining back psychiatric problems.

I feel like I can't trust them, I may go into hospital and told that I cannot leave with my child and
that would be traumatic.
I don't know how serious this is, but I do know a girl in recent years here had her baby immediately taken a way for
a few weeks because of past depression, before a judge ordered that she as the mother should have her baby back.

How can they so casually play god in our lives like this? The first few weeks will be so important to
get breastfeeding and bonding established, but they want to put us in some alien place and separate my son
from me just to 'assess me'. If I say no, I know they wont let me take my baby home.

I feel like just running away, but I don't know how at risk I am of them actually doing all theyre threatening to.

Help?

Okay thanks.
I know, you're right.
I'm having CAF meetings and a support plan in place which is to prevent the need for SS because the last thing I need is the stress of them on my back.
I think the CAF people will support me, I'm even starting a part time childcare course next week with the children's centre.

I just need to jump all the hoops and do whatever they say and hope for the best I guess, hope they're not planning things behind my back.

oh god, im soo angry and sad for you - bastards, how fucking dare they.

Can I ask what medication you took before you made your suicide attempts? You were young? Certain types of ADs are now known to cause an increase in suicidal thoughts at the begining of treatment and are now not recommended for those under 18. Seroxat was the famous one, but there are a whole family of drugs which have similar side effects - christ, it could be that you were having side effects.

Look, im sure you will be absolutely fine, but i think you should get yourself some legal advice and possibly a solicitor. As you say you are co operating with social services so that is good.

Yes, childbirth can exacerbate existing mental illnesses and of course there is the risk of PND, but what? Are women who have suffered from PND in the past now going to be under scrutiny - add me to the list then.

Be strong - get clued up about your rights - i think that will make you feel better. Do co operate wtih Social services, they are there to help you, but make sure you are adamant about your rights - how ARE you now? Do you feel OK? Are you getting support?

I am honestly, sat here shaking with anger on your behalf

This is an horrendous situation, nickname, for you to have been placed in. Note that the horrendous situation has nothing to do with you, but is because that consultant completely failed to understand that your past history as detailed in your notes should be compared with your history of being a caring and successful mother to your 3-year-old. That consultant is working on very limited information - something she should be aware of, and should have made discrete enquiries about before making the comments that she did.

It is frightening to feel that you could be ganged-up-on, so make a list of all those who know how good you are as a mother and a person, and ask them to intervene and set the record straight. They won't want all their support go to waste because of a consultant who didn't even bother to find out the whole picture.

OP, what 'thisisyesterday' said is spot on.

I had very bad depression after the birth of my 2nd DC 9 years ago.I slowly recovered with a lot of help from my GP.

I then had my 3rd baby 4 months ago and although I felt fine at first I slowly started to slip into depression again. One eveing when DD was about 6 weeks old I cracked and phoned the midwife in desperation. Which turned out to be a really bad decision. Whist I was on the phone sobbing her only concearn was for the welfare of my baby, which I guess is right really. When she realised I was alone she started asking all these questions about when DH would be home and told me to get him to phone her when he got in.

She basically thought I was going to harm my baby.

Since then I've had every HV and CPN within a 10 mile radius on my back and have also seen a shrink on a psychiatric (sp?) day unit. I've also had the threat of SS hanging over me.

My GP has been a God send through all of this. He has treated me all these years through my first bout of depression and is getting me through this time too.

He has spoke to everyone concerned about my condition and because of this the HV seems to have accepted that I am not a danger to my baby and is sowly backing off.

I have never shared this on here before, but wanted to because I want you to know that you can and will come through this.

Hi Nickname, this is truly a horrible situation but stay the course and have a little faith in yourself! You have done this already! You have overcome depression, you have a beautiful boy that you are raising well and on your own - no small feat! These people are handling the situation very badly but dont let them panic you - be yourself so that they can see your strengths. Despite their shocking manner ultimately they believe they are doing the best for your unborn baby. You as a mother want the best for your baby so you have that in common. They just need to see that you are not that teenage girl anymore but a strong independent capable woman. Please stay strong - think of all you have achieved so far. This is just another obstacle course. You are bringing your baby home with you end of! now just do what it takes to help them see you for who you are not who you were. All the best.

do you have any family to support you?

I am a social worker in child protection. It is VERY unlikely that you are at risk of your child being removed at birth;

• your mental health is fine at the moment
• your son is doing well and there have been no concerns since his birth
• doctors/nurses in gynae/obs tend to over react on possible CP issues

The doctors cannot do anything really without referring you to social services - have they? If yes, i would be proactive and contact the department to talk it through. If I was the social worker, at most i would recomment family support package to help you adjust to being a mother of 2 - at most.

A judge needs FIRM evidence to take your child away. If there is no immediate risk, and if what you have posted is the full story, and I do not doubt you, then the risk is very very low.

Please try not to worry. You have passed assessments before and it sounds like there is no reason for it to be any different this time.

Don't know where you are in the country but you might be lucky and have an advocacy group to support you in your area. Have a look at this leaflet from MIND about advocacy.

www.mind.org.uk/help/rights_and_legislation/mind_guide_to_advocacy

It might also be worth talking to the Family Rights Group as they have a wealth of experience of dealing with social services. Good luck!

I passed social services assesment last time because my husband was with me and he was charming, respectable and charismatic, so they couldn't touch me.
We haven't seen him since my 3yr old was 4 weeks old.
I'm on my own this time, they could pull anything, as they have begun to.
Wish I didn't live in this country

The number of people (probably correctly) advising the OP to co-operate with this witchhunt, just so she keeps on the right side of people who have far too much power over her is really chilling.

what else can u do though skidoodle?
I think i have to play along, do every little thing they say and not tell anyone if i feel down..
and have emergency savings and a place to flee to?
It's not just high profile cases like that fran girl, I know of people from my own neighbourhood i grew up in have had babies taken so easily because of 'depression'..
People who haven't seen it happen prefer to think it doesnt happen..

I'm not sure there is anything else you can do. It's just a frightening response - play along or else it won't go well for you. That appears to be the message from pretty much everybody.

In your situation I would definitely get legal advice.

skidoodle, it is reality.
if nickname does not "play along", although that in itself is a dangerous attitude, she will be making rod for own back.
when there has been an assessment in a previous pregnancy a second pregnancy usually triggers a response. but like i said, it is VERY VERY unlikely it will go further than a brief assessment IF THAT.
The note not to let you leave is routine when a assessment is taking place.
ultimately it is about protecting children and i am sure if you were unwell or needed assistance then you would hope someone would offer the help.
good luck nickname, you sound like you have come a long way since your youth. wishing you well for baby number 2 x

Hi nickname - this sounds awful for you,
Terribly scarey and heartbreaking

If I lived near you I would gladly pop round and sit down for a chat and a hug!

Like others my first thought was that you need an advocate of some sort. I dont know how you go about that though.

If you have got homestart (or surestart) in your area they could be a great source of support for you (a weekly 2 hour visit by a volunteer, who will come to your home to chat and provide a helping hand to you and your children)

homestart

Best of luck chick I will be thinking of you!

nickname- I can really understand you being so desperately worried it is a completely normal reaction but from my experience I don't think social services are at all interested in taking babies away for no reason.
I work in mental health with people who have much more severe problems than yours seem to be. Schizophrenia, drug and alcohol problems, people who are regularly self harming or in trouble with police and even in these situations the bias is always towards keeping the child with the parent. Your problems are in the past, you have shown yourself to be a good parent I don't think you will have any problem.
The obstetrician is covering his back and over-reacting. People are jumpy after baby P. He doesn't really know much about it but thinks he should do something. I really do think that social services will take a quick look and then go away. For one of my patients recently who is totally well and her problems are in the past they just interviewed her once and got a medical report and signed her off no further intervention.
If it reassures you to have an advocate that is absolutely your right and there are a lot of charities that will provide this service for free eg MIND

Firstly wishing you lots of luck with the rest of you pregnancy.

Do you have a friend or family member that can come with you to the next appointment? If not then you need the support of someone be it your HV/Doctor to support you and help reassure you that you are not at danger.

You need to contact Social Services and speak to the family support unit, you don't have to give them your name and details initially and say your calling on behalf of a friend, I am sure you will find they will reassure you, to remove a child from a parent is an extreme measure.

My mum used to be a emergency foster carer and she was used to support families that didn't have other people around them to support them.

To give you some idea we had a family come to stay with us where the dad had serious learning issues, his wife had died, he had got into depression, and they had four children! Now the dad had serious learning difficulties he neglected the children to a degree that he wouldn't think about having to feed them he would get dinner for himself...they used to come to our house filthy, with the support of restby care with my mum for the children, also he had support and learnt about ensuring the children were fed, adn washed etc... they were never taken away from him, just put in restby care some weekends (the youngest three 5,7 and 9, the oldest was 12).

Not all children are removed when social services are involved as well so please don't be scared.

The main priority if I were you would be to secure care for your 3yr old whilst your having the other baby, speak to your midwife and HV team for reassurance, and ask for assistance after the birth incase you need it. Nobody knows when they might need more support whether they have had a history of depression or not.

Running away won't help, because running away means people think you have something to hide and if and they catch up with you what will happen then???? Its really hard in your situation because your obviously scared, but you need to think logically and clear for yourself, your new baby and your 3yr old. Running away would be distrubtive to him, with a new baby as well would be tougher on him. Please please think this through and ensure you make the right decision for you, SS will not remove a child unless it is at serious risk.

The assesment thing on your notes is normal if they're is any concern of history it happened to my friend who has had depression a couple of years of being on AD's and being off work for long spells at a time, she was assessed, she had extra support to make sure she was coping for the first few weeks and they kept in touch via phone not hassling her but to ensure she had support!!! So please do not be scared. xxx

And talk to everyone here its important to talk xxxxxx

Sorry forgot to ask, housing wise are you in Social housing? If so the Housing Association may well have extra support available to you x

Agree with mamadoc.

Nickname - I think some posters are escalating things here and must be worrying you more. It isn't true that adoptions have trebled wince the targets came in. There is a lot of misunderstanding about these targets. There are targets for everything in all public services, and the targets for adoption were to prevent children remaining in foster care for years when it was known that they would not be safe to return home. I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it is totally incorrect. The reason older children who are taken into care who can't ever return home are not adopted is because adoptors don't want to adopt older children. Young children taken into care who will never be safe at home need a permanent home and as there are adoptors who are willing to care for a younger child, this is the reason that babies are more likely to be adopted than older children. And adoption and targets have nothing at all to do with funding - that is a complete myth.

I think a lot of posters are jumping to the conclusion that the psychiatrist and other hospital staff are working against you and planning to remove your baby They do not have a shred of evidence about this and neither do you - you are panicking without any reason I think, though it is understandable that you are concerned.

You don't need to contact SSD and speak to the family support service as Butterscotch suggests and say you are calling on behalf of a friend because they won't discuss anything with you on this basis and it will not get you anywhere. I think BS is trying to be helpful, but this is not the way forward.

Mamadoc is right - please try to calm down and it isn't about having to "play along" it is about working co-operatively with professionals who many be concerned about your welfare and that of the unborn baby. Yousay you know mothers have had babies removed just because they are depressed, but you won't know the details of these cases and there may be many other reasons of which you are unaware. You must try to believe that the last thing social workers and courts want to do is remove children from parents. It is the law that they must offer support to keep the family together.

Please please do not follow the advice of a poster who suggests you contact John Hemmings and Justice for Families. He has been heavily criticised in the courts by High Court Judges and ordered out of court by other judges. He will make matters worse for you.

I am sure all will be well and you are worrying without good reason.

You should be aware that nananina has history with john hemming on here. She's one of the social workers who thinks that social workers, by definition, are always right.

Hmm................I also think that nickname is running away with this BUT I can also well believe that she has encountered some OTT attitudes from healthcare professionals. I think HCP do tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to child protection but they should always follow a framework/guidelines and discuss cases with other agencies if unsure - as opposed to going in guns blazing. If I were the OP I would want to organise a meeting with all relevant parties to discuss the salient issues rationally and calmly. That will show that she is being responsible and will give her the opportunity to put forward her views in the presence of all concerned. At the moment it all seems very disjointed with one agency having one view, another holding different opinions. That is very confusing for the OP and de-stabilising as well. If I were the OP's CPN I would not even be contemplating seeking removal of the baby or fostering of her ds. I would however, have to complete a child risk screen (as is standard procedure for any service user with children). Past events are taken into account but the emphasis is on the current mental state of the individual. Yes, pregnancy can lead to relapse of mental state but this just means providing extra support.

I mean providing a package of care to support individual through a potentially traumatic time - thereby limiting any damage caused by re-emergence of symptoms.

Thank you people.
The reason I would rather migrate the country that have SS in my home is because 'I' have history with them.
With my first child 8 years ago I asked them for help.
I was alone, had suddenly started fulltime college and stopped breastfeeding and within weeks I plunged into exhaustion.
I said I couldn't cope and asked them take my 4 month old baby for a few days while I rested and they agreed and told me to call them when I was ready.
When I went to get my baby back from them a week later they said I could have him back after I did assessments.
They said they had to monitor how I acted with him during one hour a day visits.
They wrote that I picked him up wrong, and I didn't understand how to follow their instructions on what to do with my baby amongst other critisisms. They cancelled visits if I was more than 5 minutes late, despite them knowing I had to walk 45 minutes to get there everyday, they cancelled half of the missed visits themselves because of staff shortages.
They said they would call the police if I tried to just take him home with me at anytime, and that if I just carried on with their plan I would get him back.
They slowly reduced our visits.
Then they dropped the bombshell that they were getting a careorder on him and told me to get a lawyer.
It turned out he had been in voluntry care all along and that they lied about me not being able to have him back. Of course they got the order because it looked like I hadn't bothered taking him out of voluntry care.
I found out that all along I should have had my own social worker helping me but they kept this knowledge from me.
I began self harming as I was obviously distressed at them taking my baby.
They said they would have him adopted and they they never lose cases.
I met the child gaudian appointed by the court and she said she was shocked I hadnt been given a change and I found a mother and baby unit who said we would be suitable so me and my child could be back together.
The social services threatened that if I didnt sign adoption papers the future adoptive parents would never write to me.
After a year of them keeping my son in care and reduced my visits to one hour a week it finally went to court.
The child gaudian who spoke for the best interest of my son stood up and told the judge that I should be given a chance as I'd done nothing wrong and supported us being ain a mother and baby unit.
But the judge agreed with SS and said that he would rather my son be adopted incase I couldn't cope in the future, or if my depression had a negative effect on my child.
I was only so severly depressed because my they wouldn't give me my child.
They adopted my son and I spent the next few years depressed and did a few suicide attempts.

When I had my 3 year old who is with me now a number of years had passed and I had recovered from the 'adjustment disorder' (to the adoption)
and as I said I was discharged after a short visit by social services.
My worry is that they only discharged me because my husband was there.

Now I am alone I could become an easy target for them to take this baby.

That is my full story so you guys who are trying to help me have more understanding now.