my beautiful, clever, fintastic 10 year old keeps talking about suicide. Am heartbroken.

[ErnestTheBavarian]

How the f do I handle it when a just turneed 10 year old talks repestedly about suicide.

hiya, just wanted to add, i felt suicidal at that age for various reasons and never told anyone, so definately the fact he has told you is good. i should also add i have always felt like that for years now on and off, it started when i was about 10ish and now im 29. i remember it starting after i watched a tv programe "casualty" where a young girl had took an overdose and from then i kind of knew this was what i needed to do to make my problems go away if that makes sense. i truely think if i had help at that age then all the problems from then wouldnt still be stuck in my head now with more added on top of them if that makes sense so i would definately say try some kind of talking type help, as from experience i think that would help, i phoned childline at 17 and they were so so lovely i couldnt fault them, it really helped. At 17 i actually attempted suicide and truely think if i had been understood and spoke to earlier i wouldnt have got to that point, im not trying to scare you just to say from my experience it would have helped massively at that age to have talked about it and to have understood the actual reality of how easily it would kill you rather than cry for help etc and also to talk over the problems. thinking back to when i was 10 and suicidal it was more a way out that seemed like the only way rather than a true desire to end my life, it was more that i could only see that as an option to end my problems etc.

sorry if that doesnt make any sense its just really brought back how i felt as a child which is scary thinking about it now and i also have a 4 yar old jumping on me while i try to type.

hope i havent said anything i shouldnt, i just thought it may help to hear what i was feeling as a suicidal 10 yr old?? hope i havent said anything wrong

Ernest - I am so sorry to hear your son is feeling suicidal. Have you thought about contacting the Samaritans? Few people are aware but they are there to support children too.

Your son could always email them if he didn't want to speak over the phone. Their email is [email protected]

Just to clarify: they are not a religious organisation, they are totally confidential, they do not give advice - they simply listen and hope that by listening they allow the caller to explore their own feelings more fully and find a way through.

Of course, they would also be there to support you too.

Here is their website

IME, if he is talking to you that is a very good sign. Even displaying his emotional pain is a good sign too because he feels able to share with you. The suicidal often go into shut-down before acting on their feelings. If he becomes very withdrawn and no longer wants to talk then I would recommend you become extra vigilant. I don't mean to scare you. Just trying to share my experience, that is all.

I don't know if this is any use but I write from the pov of having had suicidal feelings from a fairly young age into adulthood myself as well as from the perspective of someone who works with families in dealing with hard to manage behaviour in children, not specifically suicidal stuff but behaviour that stems from insecurity, poor self esteem, anxiety, the whole spectrum...

I think suicide can become an option when you feel unhappy and low but you assess your life and look for solutions and realise that there appear to be none or that on the face of it you have nothing seriously hampering you. So, for your son, the fact that he is well liked and a high achiever could possibly make him question what on earth could he possibly change to make himself feel happy.

Being smart and well liked with a stable family could almost be too perfect and that may just be the problem.

Depression and low mood is often fairly illogical when you think of it.

Ultimately, I believe, suicidal thinking is linked to loss of control and powerlessness so if I was going to try and help a child in this situation, as well as talking I'd be trying to achieve some empowerment.

Obviously outside agencies can provide great support and expert monitoring but ultimately you need to be equipped with the tools for heloing him help himself.

I'd suggest starting from the drawing board, ignoring the positives you outline in your OP and help him to understand what his feelings are. Not understand what his making him feel bad - it doesn't work like that always - but what his feelings actually are.

So, he feels desperate but how and why?

Don't say these things but think along the lines of getting him to use descriptive language; maybe he feels lonely/unsuccessful/pressured/foolish/unnattractive/, etc.

Then work on solutions that he can come up with with your support.

You really do need to forget the fact that all appears well from the perspective of the average onlooker. My parents never understood this and just couldn't understand why I had problems when to everyone else I had none. I couldn't understand it either! That made me feel peculiar tbh.

I may have missed this from my skim read of subsequent posts but what has he said so far in terms of how he has come to feel this way?

You need to get him to see a doctor/ child pysch 9 what ever is the way it works where you are)

I appreciate so much your messages. No time for detailed respone, some very helpful points. Have made appt with paediatrician this am ( he went to school but was sent home feeling unwell)

this all started with his grandma dying 2 years ago.

He won't sleep on his own, has 'bad thoughts' (mainly me dying) most nights, has trouble sleeping. Is very clever, but putting himself under enormous pressure to do well at school, has had to deal with a lot of upheaval.

hopefully doctor wil be helpful.

will update when return

Had many tears this morning, but he is laughing with his db now

Glad you've got an appointment. Really hope you can get some help with this.

I'm going through this with my 11 yo DD. It started a few weeks ago, screaming at me to hide the knives and having "bad thoughts". It got so bad I took her to hospital, we have been in touch with the child crisis team. She is going to see a therapist next week. Make sure he is seen.

I know the things that has triggered it in my DD. She isn't going to do it, IMHO, but she pictures herself doing it or me handing her a knife sso she can "split her wrists".

She has improved even knowing that help is coming. I think it will be a type of CBT to enable her rid her mind of the thoughts. They sem to think a shourt burst of therapy is all that is needed

She is a very sensitive child who is a bit naive, and isn't happy about growing up.

I'm so sorry for you. This has completely devasted our family. I'm never going to rest easy again.

Take care x

Your DS sounds very like my DD, she is a natural worrier and shy. I purposely sent her to a local high school, rather than a grammar (She got an A in the 11+ so would have ben accepted) because of the pressure I knew she'd be under at a GS, academically wis. She loves school it's not a problem and they have been great.

She worries about everything, he worst is always going to happen, to her.

Again, please make sure he gets to see a child therapist.

cocolepew, how sad and frightening At least I don't have any immediate worries he's in danger, just he's in such mental distress, and for so long.

The doctor was wonderful, very sympathetic, reall listened to him (he did 95% of the talking, I just filled in a couple of details that he couldn't, like when mil died).

He has given us a list of (psycho) thereapists, which I will call on Monday, and also a family advice centre, where we're likely to be able to get an appointment much quicker

He also gave us a priscriptoion for helping him sleep - I haven't collected it yet, so will make a discision on if I'll give it at all or how often when I see exactly what it is.

hobgoblin, that was really useful tip about not focussing on the positives, as one of the things he was saying was he can't see how his life could get better, as he is doing well at school, has lovely parents, 2 brothers a lovely baby sister, a nice house, loads of toys etc etc, and yet he still feels so bad

Anyway, I hadn't thought of taking him to the doctor, and possibly wouldn't have, but for all you people who said it, so thank you. I am so lucky I only had to wait a couple of hours for the appointment, and feel much calmer now we have the ball rolling.

Anyone give me a couple of tips -
It's really noticable how he keeps saying sorry all the time about everything, mostly stuff he's not responsible for or just normal, almost irrelevant stuff. Give the impression he is wound up so tightly. DO I just ignore it, (kindly) tell him to stop apologising?

Also, eg last night, he had stopped weeping, but then had had a bit of fun with his brother, running around laughing, then he went really sullen, wouldn't talk. I find the sullen grumpiness really tough to be with. Almost feel like telling him to stop it/cheer up/ snap out of it, I must say, he does tend to be a bit of a wallower. His 2 brothers were running round having fun, he was just sitting being sullen. He'd been sitting round all day, so I also wanted him to have a bit of fun and exercise. Wh had to insist he go and play, and when he did, lo and behold, after 3 attempts at forcing him to play, he was running around shrieking laughing and having a great time and didn't want to stop when it was time to go. In hindsight I think it was the right thing to do, but at the time, it's hard to know how to deal with the dark mood, so I'd appreciate any tips there.

Thank you so much for being such a reassuring and helpful wealth of information. Cannot say how much I appreciate having mn about when I'm all on my own dealing with such difficult stuff

sorry to read about your son distrss.that is really upsetting and scary for you both

glad he saw doctor and felt listened to.it is so important he gets to ventilate feelings and express self

adolescent services should hopefully be able to support you both.talking therapies - yes and what about activities as a diversion and to boost confidence

perhaps make 1:1 time you and him,end of day ,after tea.make it clear it is him and mummy time and talk, listen,be together.maintain that as consistent time for him and you

sometimes as parents it is ok to be realistic to our children and acknowledge life feels hard, and we don't know all the answer either.

be consistent and affirmative to him, and try normalise and maintain family life because you have other children too.

re: the apologising. reinforce to him he isn't individually responsible for everything and that you love him

you don't need to answer his on screen - but is there any depression/mental illness/mood disorder in the family?can you think of any precipitating factors/triggers

keep in touch with psychiatrist and adolescent services

do you have a crisis service number in case of deterioration

do so hope things improve for both of you

Good news about the appointment. My DS is sensitive (overly, at times) and occasionally has a tendency to wallow. Personally, I think there is a place for encouraging them to 'snap out of it', as well as a time for engaging with the problem. Physical exercise is good for low mood, and distraction is a recognised technique for dealing with anxiety, so I see no harm in a bit of a brisk and firm 'come on, we're doing this now'.

I'm cautious about offering advice in your situation - you should take it from the professionals - I'm just sharing my experience.

sm, no history of mental illness, but am 100% sure this all stems from the death of mil, his nanny from cancer (brain tumour) 2 years ago. Since then he has had nightmares and won't sleep alone, fears I will die etc. He is a big thinker and very sensitive.

Anyway, both I and dh have spent a lot of 1 to 1 time with him this w/e. He was quite bouncy yesterday. I really think having aired it all so much has really helped.

One other thing is he tends to have the bad thoughts at night, and tends to suffer from insomnia. Need wys to help him sleep.

Have been toying with idea of getting a dog for a long time, but now I'm wondering if it will help him - excuse to make him take it out for a long walk on an evening, which would also give him 1-2-1 time with me (or dh), plus a 'special friend' for him to confide in.

I've been put off by the amount of work/commitement, but would be prepared to get one if it helped him What do people think, good idea?

Oh Ernest, how horrible .

I don't have experience of this but I agree a visit to the GP would be a good step.

Hi Orm, thanks - took him to the doctor on Friday, doc excellent, v. supportive. Had a good weekend.

Now he's poorly (puking) so still off school.

Ah sorry! Need to read more

Glad things are a bit better.

Ernest - I have nothing sensible to add but wishing you luck that all this will get better and your lovely DS gets through this.

I'm glad the Dr was supportive. Is there anywhere near you that does cranial oestopathy? I find it helps my DD and she sleeps like a log after going. I would also recommend the Bach flower remedies. I don't know if they work but my DD thinks they do though Rescue Rememdy has got me through some tough times. this site has a personal remedy mixer.

Take care x

How distressing for you all, I'm glad that getting it out has helped a little.

I found these folk very helpful Young Minds when DD was having problems.

She is now 10, she first started becoming anxious about me dying 2 years ago, it then became fear of her death etc. My GP (who has a DD same age) said it is cmmon for very sensitive DC to go through this, her DD at that time was obsessed that their house would catch fire and they would all burn in their sleep.

I hope things continue to improve.

As for the dog...we have a 6 month old pup, got for DD for all those reasons you stated. I couldn't get an adult dog as 5 yr old DS has SN and can be unpredictable (falls over alot) so we needed a pup to grow up with him stumbling about and not see it as agression/react agressively. That side of things is perfect, DS fell over on the poor pup last weekend - dog wriggled out and licked his face until he sat up (and then generally bounced all over him).

A puppy is very hard work and I've had dogs nearly all my life. A dog is an excellent idea, but I would recommend getting a youngish resuce/rehome - let him go to the pound and pick it, far more special than to just buy one from a litter.

LBC that is exactly like my DD, obsessed with the house catching fire etc. I would not wish this to happen to my worse enemy but, at the same time, it is a comfort knowing others have/are going through it. It doesn't make me so alone, so thanks to everyone who has shared a story.

OMG Ernest I read the thread because the OP was so sad and realised it was you. It is needahand here we were on the June thread together.

So sorry to hear that you must be out of your head with worry. Do you thinkthat perhaps your (DS?) is finding it hard to adapt to his new life after the move.

I don't know what I would do apart from going straight to GP and talk talk talk with him/her until you get to the bottom of their concerns

A dog sounds like a good idea, but only if you are "dog people" and would like a dog irrespective of your DSs difficulties. Too many dogs aren't cared for properly when they are bought for the wrong reasons.

Oh, Ernest. I did not realise that this was you. I had not clicked on before because I did not feel that I could advise in any way.

How horrible for your DS and for you. I am glad that the doc was kind and helpful. The good thing about Germany is that you will likely not have long waiting periods to see someone.

I do think that a dog would be a very good thing for your DS right now.

A good friend is dating a paediatrician in Nurnberg, if you would like me to ask him about where to find help in Germany, I would be glad to. I am sure that there are similar associations to Childline etc.

Ernest I am so sorry for ds, for you and the rest of your family.

It can be hard to accept, I think, that children can suffer from depression as adults do. I don't mean to pathologise your son: I think that certain people are just born sensitive, anxious and conscientious as he clearly is and this can have a terrible downside.

I think that it is great that he is able to talk to you and that you are so keen to help him.

He is not alone in being like this as other posters have said. At age 11 I became depressed myself (always a sensitive child, etc, emotional abuse in family which I am sure is not the case for your ds) and became obsessed with the fear of nuclear war, became unable to sleep etc. At 13 I had developed a full blown major depression, crying in school all the time, all the usual symptoms and often wished I were dead but didn't directly talk about killing myself. I went completely undiagnosed (it was the late 80s...) and my father in particular could not deal with my depression and became aggressive with me which really did not help matters.

I've come to terms with being a chronic long term depressive now but who knows whether therapy and medical help at that earlier age could have set me on a different path. I manage now, but take a high dose of ADs and mood stabilisers and still have attacks of quite severe depression and suicidal thoughts.

I think you are doing all the right things for your ds who sounds such a lovely and caring boy.

Echo the calls to get CAMHS involved and also the GP immediately (although there have long been issues about AD treatment for children ds's age, GPs may yet be too keen for your liking on immediate chemical treatment as they are so used to handing out drugs and saying 'now go away' (in my experience); if you are assertive about therapy I think you should get it, but there will be a wait. Also I find NHS psychiatric care incredibly summary and badly organised, but that is another thread altogether.)

It is so humbling and touching to get so much support from online friends Thanks guys.

Mil death was def the trigger, but you're right, lifeistooshort (hello ) I think all the upheaval has definitely had a negative effect. He is doing well, but it hasn't been easy. At least now I think the dust is settling. He has local friends, and becasue of the kids we will definitely stay in this village when we have to move in 2 years, so they'll have to have a new house, but we'll stay by all their friends, same school etc

Acanthus, I agree absolutely. We have anyway been toying with the idea for a long time - I had dogs as a child and would love one, but the work involved has put me off, but I'd be prepared to go ahead if I though it would help dh, It just all seemed to slot together, a bit of a lightbulb moment.

Ernest I am so glad it went well with the doctors.

I second what agingoth suggested about childhood depression. I had it when I was about your DS' age. All of the sudden, I was obsessed by death and very worried and had a lot of anxieties. And because as you said he is very bright, perhaps he is thinking about a lot of things children his age wouldn't normally but because he is yound, his way of thinking is still immature and he cannot deal with the thoughts as an adult would (not sure I am being very clear here). Hopefully with the right medical assistance, a lot of talking and reassurance, he will feel better/more hopeful.

I can't imagine what you are going through though, this is every parent's worse nightmare