How can we be sure the world is real and everyone is concious?

[RumpleDumpleBum]

I am going to sound like i am completely insane but please be kind to me as I feel like I'm having some sort of existential crisis. Over the past few days I have been having really intrusive thoughts about how we can never prove anyone else's consciousness but our own and how do we actually know that what we perceive to be the world is real and not some sort of elaborate illusion or simulation. I'm worried thst everyone i know and love might just be projections of my mind. Has anyone else had thoughts like this? Please make me see reason.

Yes I am definitely real. I am lying in my bed in a particularly bad mood because the weather is so bad. My daughter , partner and Cat are real too. Fear not, you are not alone.

I would see your GP if it is causing you distress.

How could you be alone? Someone would have had to have created the illusion in the first place.

There would be signs. Humans are very imperfect and so is our work. If you were an AI construct and I was interacting with a machine, you wouldn't be misspelling 'Conscious.'

If the other drivers this morning were just characters, they'd know how to use the damn roundabout correctly or it wouldn't have been designed so stupidly in the first place.

If my customer earlier was fake, he wouldn't have been calling a grey rug burgundy. He is colour blind.

Have you watched the Dr Who episode with the library? It's worth a watch. Not because it's scientifically correct but it does raise the point that no computer in existence is capable of creating something as intricate and detailed as what's around us.

Computers like patterns, they repeat things. Nature is random. A million variations and permutations. No 2 people are exactly the same, even identical twins. No computer can simulate that.

The way I tend to think about it, is that in order for this to be a simulation, there would have to be a simulator, and that seems substantially less likely than me just existing normally.

Why would I be a character in your life? And what kind of experiment? You can touch and see and smell and taste things. Gravity pulls you towards the centre of the earth, living things grow and then die. You feel emotions and physical senses and so does everyone else. How could that all possibly be 'an experiment'? In a Petri dish? In a giant laboratory? Run by who? And for what purpose?

I spent most of my teens reading my way through various philosophers after thinking thoughts like these.

firstly, it isn’t possible to logically prove that other consciousnesses exist.

however in general we accept levels of proof below logical proof. We accept evidence from our senses - seeing things, feeling things etc.

as all of our senses funnel into our brain it is logically possible that the channel of information is being controlled and reality is only the equivalent of a computer game.

however - people enjoy computer games. They play them even though they are not “real” (and arguably there is a sense in which theu are real).

exploring philosophy is often a way of detaching from reality or trying to intellectualise a problem people may have in their life.

gp is unlikely to be helpful to be honest but if this is something you are starting to obsess about then maybe worth stepping away and spending some time in nature. It’ll calm your body even if you don’t beleive it is real

Humans are quite egotistical and so it's hard for us to fully comprehend that other people are alive in their own heads, having thoughts and feelings that are as real as the ones you or I are experiencing. We are all the main character in our stories!

I don't know you, so why would I exist with my whole backstory, my husband, kids, slightly stinky and moulting cats just to make you more real? It's bonkers. I can promise you I'm definitely conscious and if I could design my own life, the one I'm having now would definitely not be it! And I know I'm not bright enough to have made up Shakespeare etc, as part of my own simulation!

i honestly think you do need to see a dr x

I don’t want to make your thread about me, but I do think it’s interesting that at a point I realised I was dead and creating a fantasy living world, your thread appeared on here. It is clearly my fantastical brain trying to challenge me.
But in case you are real and not part of my thoughts, consider your life. I know things happening in my life could not possibly happen in reality, hence obviously being part of my imagination. Can you pinpoint things you know are nonsensical?

What is happening in your life that could not possibly happen in reality?

Ockham's razor says the simplest explanation is more likely to be the truth. Is imagining the world as some giant simulation set up with non-sentient fake humans all designed around you the more simple explanation? Or is everything being as it seems more likely.

I have existential OCD. Mine presents a bit differently, but if this is interfering with daily life it does sound like something you should talk to the GP about.

as others have said, solipsistic pondering and fleeting thoughts about the nature of reality are normal and for some can be fascinating. But with OCD in the mix it’s far from enjoyable because you just can’t put it aside, it causes distress and the fact there is no answer feels incredibly uncomfortable. For me, when in a bad patch, I just can’t move on and go about my day, whereas friends who may have had fleeting similar thoughts can just dismiss it. That’s the cornerstone of an obsessive / ruminative thought pattern.

The fact you’re seeking repeated reassurance on here does have an OCD ring to it. People are trying to help by confirming they’re real/ engaging in philosophical discussion but tbh reassurance is the absolute worst thing for OCD. It provides short term relief but before long more questions rise to the surface and it keeps the cycle going.

The aim is to try to accept and ‘sit with’ the uncertainty until you sort of acclimatise to it and your brain moves on … but it’s bloody hard!

I do appreciate most of the responses on here, and some of them have made me laugh, so thankyou. Although I feel the person who thinks she's dead is even more worrying. I can't tell if she's winding us up or not.

Hi OP. Those are all interesting questions for my Sunday morning. I am sure I am real. The world is too complicated and intricate, terrible and wonderful for it not to be. You have said, though, that your big worry is that you are alone in the universe and I wonder if that is the root of the thoughts. This can be addressed by counselling - perhaps a highly experienced psychdynamic practitioner. But let’s just say you are alone; where does the world come from - you? If so, how can the complexity be there? If not, then it’s someone or something else so you’re not alone. Perhaps do some reading? Kant? Kierkegaard? Try Sophies World?

I must just say that this thread appears to be totally without any of the usual Mumsnet posturing/rudeness/performing.
It’s nice to be part of a REAL conversation!

My daughter’s anxiety stemmed from these questions being raised in philosophy 2nd year of high school. It triggered a deep fear in her that this life we live might not be real. She also developed a terrible fear of death and dying around the same time. It was a very hard year.

It’s funny because reading some of the responses on here, and speaking to close family at the time, highlighted to me that she wasn’t alone in her fears and that they had gone through similar at a similar age.

@Theseagullsarenowclouds - your response made me both laugh but also relieved that other people think the same way I do sometimes too!!

Seriously though, if this is impacting you day to day and your ability to form and having loving relationships then it’s time to get some professional help. Life is full of so much uncertainty and can be scary at times.

Btw I believe we are real - surely to god if it wasn’t my washing wouldn’t be be piled high, my dishwasher wouldn’t need emptied and I wouldn’t be in the highly stressful job I chose to be in? Surely everything would be easy and carefree?

I think, therefore, I am

@PurpleLovecatsif you were actually dead, why would you register on MN, choose a username etc. To me, that says there's a part of you that recognises that you are in fact, alive and that this notion of being dead is something that you know deep down isn't true.

I did all that before I died though. All this is just in my head.

purple cats has their own mental health issues op. Don’t let their posts concern you.