How can we be sure the world is real and everyone is concious?

[RumpleDumpleBum]

I am going to sound like i am completely insane but please be kind to me as I feel like I'm having some sort of existential crisis. Over the past few days I have been having really intrusive thoughts about how we can never prove anyone else's consciousness but our own and how do we actually know that what we perceive to be the world is real and not some sort of elaborate illusion or simulation. I'm worried thst everyone i know and love might just be projections of my mind. Has anyone else had thoughts like this? Please make me see reason.

I have had depersonalisation and derealisation and it’s very different from intellectual exploration of ideas.

in depersonalisation I was not in control of my actions and it wasn’t me at all very, very fundamental level.

You can’t prove it isn’t real, it could be true. And you could be a projection and not real. We’ll never truly know so does it matter?

But why is that unsettling? Whether it’s true or not doesn’t change your reality or how you feel about the people you love - because it might have been true all along and you still loved them. What is scary is the chance that you might find out it’s all a simulation… I’d rather continue on not knowing (and definitely would if I was becoming panicked that it was true).

Re PP and the everyone will be dead in 100 years point. I often walk the local graveyards and wonder how many years it will be before no one remembers me. I don’t have kids, so it’s feasibly 90 years (by which time my goddaughters will likely be dead and they’re the youngest people who know me well enough to remember me). I find it really comforting though, that none of this really matters at all - all those people in graves regretted decisions and replayed interactions in their heads and made mistakes and it’s all totally irrelevant now.

The idea that only your mind can be known to exist is called solipsism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

it is logically correct.

however various philosophers have argued that it is not a sensible position to adopt for a number of reasons:

firstly you cannot be sure that other people exist but equally you cannot be sure they do not

if you treat other people as things then if you are not the only consciousness in the universe they might treat you as a thing and that would be bad.
so you should act as if they were real

(this is Kant’s categorical imperative)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative

People have pondered the nature of the universe as long as we have been on the earth. It is only a mental health issue at an individual level when a person can’t maintain a degree of emotional and intellectual distance.

Pondering the nature of existence can be terrifying. There is a reason people turn to religions for easy answers.

it’s ok to be scared. It’s ok to have questions.

That is different though than when someone develops depression, anxiety, or an obsessive condition. If your thoughts about the nature of the universe are interfering with your ability to live your life and enjoy life, then talking to a doctor is a good idea.

When I was a young teenager and The Truman Show was first released I had a while of feeling like the whole world was watching me.

But - and I say this kindly - of course it bloody isn’t. I find it an embarrassing thought now.

Way too many examples to list why of course it’s not the case. But off the top of my head - go into a bookshop or library. Why on earth would so many books you’ll never read be actually written.

Walk down a street and imagine knocking on the doors of strangers. They literally have no clue you exist, the thought of you never enters their heads.

Why would so many languages exist that you can’t speak?

So do you all promise you're real? Lol. I suppose it would be ironic if you weren't real and that you were non player characters or whatever that you would all be on a thread talking about the nature of existence and how you're concious. It would be a very elaborate trick. (I have to keep telling myself things like this)

I’m definitely real. I promise. And so are you and so is everyone you’ve interacted with today. Do give your GP a ring though as you don’t need to have these worries. We’re all real.

Go to your GP

If it were like that, your consciousness would be extremely impressive at simulations.

The big bang and evolution are wild enough. I don't think adding an extra layer into it seems very likely.

What if we don’t know we’re not real?

I’m real and I’m pretty sure my cats are real (if they are not their claws are fucking sharp) but I can’t speak for the rest of you.

William of Occam came up with a phrase to cover this situation - cut the crap

otherwise known as in any given situation work from the simplest possible reason why things happen. Don’t make things more complicated than they need to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

I absolutely promise I am real. I just pinched myself to check🙂

(Maybe have a wee chat with your GP about these thoughts tomorrow)

OP, if you find it interesting to read the posts by people who are approaching this as a philosophical issue that we can think about for a while and then dismiss, then I don't think you need to take any action or worry about this.

But if you feel upset reading these responses, and your mind keeps dwelling on it, rather than letting go, I agree with those who suggest getting some help from your GP (or another source of mental health support, eg helpline for OCD or anxiety). I have struggled with these kind of thoughts in the past and in my case, I found counselling helped quite a lot. There's a difference between an intellectual debate and thoughts that are disturbing you and making you unhappy.

I’m certain I’m not alive. I can feel the bugs eating me from the inside. I know I’m decomposing. Everything around me is my imagination as I’m stuck between life and death. It’s a frightening half life and I don’t know how to move on to the afterlife.

If this is a serious contribution please seek help.

This sounds like an episode of derealisation / dissassociation / depersonalisation. When it's happened to me I have been able to ponder the whole thing philosophically. Knowing it's happening doesn't make it less weird or disturbing. And sometimes it can be quite difficult to "snap" out of it.

OP you can get help if you are finding it distressing

From where? My MH team discharged me. The crisis team said call the gp. The gp said refer to talking therapies. Talking therapies said im too unwell for them. Nobody s Tully cares. Because, I assume, it’s not real. It’s all my skewed weird brain creating scenarios that don’t exist as I’m dead.

How are you feeling more generally?

I get like this when I'm quite stressed long term by things genuinely out of my control.

If I can't fix my stress levels, I then sometimes become briefly convinced of some odd things. I've had a few funny episodes this year - I became convinced my partner was dead the other night, that my late abusive partner was alive and that I was in a false reality or possibly just a different one. I tend to get stuck on these instead, but sometimes simulation or computer game theories. It only lasted an hour or so where I really thought it, but was very upsetting (and also for my poor partner who was trying to convince me he wasn't dead ...). It's been a very difficult year. It doesn't worry me; it happened before in a very difficult period and I recognise it's the same. I can settle it with mindfulness and calming techniques after a little bit, so it's not so scary. Could you try some of these when you get too focused? Maybe some grounding? I try to actively not focus on it too, when the first thoughts start creeping in.

If you're struggling more generally, get some support. If not, maybe consider philosophy as something you'd enjoy? There's a lot of thought around this. Thoughts like this can be a mental health issue, but aren't necessarily.

I agree. When I get DP/DR episodes I get the obsessive thoughts about reality.

Anxiety medication has really helped with this.

I promise we are all, definitely, very real!

We’re part of the natural ecosystem, we’re flesh and blood, we’re nicely real I promise.

Nature wouldn’t have made you as a sole lonely creature, we all need other humans, trees, sky, sun etc to survive.

God I’m so happy it’s not just me having thoughts like that

This is why I have no interest in philosophy, psychology, politics etc… I’m just here. That’s it.

I’m real, my DH is real, my dogs are real and my children are real. Whatever you believe OP people have been replying to you on your thread, it would be a good idea to call your GP in the morning 🥰

Im definitely real. I've had a really shit day and Im so fed up if I was part of a simulation id turn myself off at the socket.