to want to get off my antidepressants asap after this evening’s Panorama?

[GeraniumGirl]

Anyone else feel the same after watching the programme tonight?

I think Panorama was trying to reach out to those that were not terribly ill when prescribed ADs op, not people like you - that clearly have had a specialist assessment and a psych evaluation and have a clear and concise pathway.

I would encourage you to see your consultant first, before doing anything at all. That would be reasonable, ask for a review and a discussion about meds and tell her your thoughts about the ADs. It’s really important to have medical supervision in place, and if you decide to go ahead, do so with clear guidance in place and a plan.

If GPs are dishing them out for mild anxiety and normal life reactions and responses this should stop. It’s normal to be sad, depressed and miserable at times, sometimes for long periods but not if it’s dangerous to you. Or your life becomes unbearable.

ADs can save lives.

What an outstanding, measured post, thank you.

Does this make sense?

If it’s a placebo how can it be difficult to come off them - they are contradicting themselves!

They are a placebo in the sense that they don’t actually work for everyone, you just feel you are getting better because you are doing something, but they are still altering chemicals and creating dependency, just because they may not be terribly effective for some patients it doesn’t make it any easier to stop taking them.

My GP was on extended leave , the gp instead of them wanted to put me on ADs foe anxiety and depression (symptoms were there) I was not sure about it so waited for my gp to come back. Luckily. Turned out it was all extreme Vit D defficiency...
I think over prescribing should be talked about. More holistic approach is needed. Apparently quite a few physical health issues can be confused with depression or anxiety. I think full blood tests ahould be carried ojt mandatorily before preacribing ADs.

It would also explain why many people get better when they change lifestyle instead of ADs.

I agree with this completely, and with the other poster who said that mental distress is a better phrase than mental illness.

I was suicidal from the age of about 8 to 26. As a young adult a GP prescribed me antidepressants, citing brain chemistry. I stopped taking them after a while because they just entrenched my belief that there was something wrong with me that I couldn't fix. Long story short, I slowly removed myself from various situations that were unhealthy for me and started really working on my thinking - to the point where now I would say I can find enjoyment (an odd word to use, but an accurate one, I think - every experience is part of being alive, and that is something to be treasured) and purpose in even very difficult events. I found a good support system and slowly but surely the suicidality became an interval event rather than permanent. I know everyone will say, "but not me - my life is and always has been perfect, it really is my brain chemistry!!" I used to say that to myself too, but it was total bullshit.

Up until a few years ago I still had bouts of suicidality and self harm, but the intervals became longer and longer. Haven't thought about killing myself for a long time now. I hope that's a permanent state of affairs, but if not I know I can get through it, because I did it before. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I do think our attitude to human emotion is f*ed in this country. We outsource everything.

Are you also suggesting that there is evidence of a link to autism and ADs? This would explain partially the very obvious increase. Obviously it isn’t the only reason.

I just think if we're getting to the stage where so many people are walking around feeling seriously depressed and anxious then we should be looking at what's wrong with our society not prescribing drugs to help people numb their discomfort.

Of course you are going to have people who are actually clinically depressed and suicidal, these are the people who these medications were created for.

But this upswing in stress, anxiety, panic, is not a normal human state of being when it's chronic IMO and its a sign that something has gone wrong with how our society is arranged. It makes me sad to hear people describe not liking how "bitchy and moody" they are without their pills. This is your self . you're talking about here?

For my bereavement, the GP also offered me therapy but there is a huge waiting list. Surely that's the issue here?

Personally when I look at our society in the UK I wonder whether this is about the natural Northern European tendency towards drink being transferred to meds - as a culture we like to booze to disconnect, now the amount of people on meds is just another form (but with a medical stamp of approval) of disconnecting. But why?

I am resisting the GPs urge towards meds, its Prozac he wants to give me. PROZAC? I am going to try everything I can that's not that first. I have a few outdoor activities lined up and am reconnecting with a spiritual side of nyself (feel like a bit of a hypocrite though, having ignored it all these years!). Everybody is different but I have decided that I personally would rather live with this distress than be on medication, and maybe it's dumb, but that's how I feel. The reason being? Well, at least without medication I know how I am doing without a filter, I know how I am progressing. I'm scared that with medication I won't know what's real in terms of how my thoughts and feelings have evolved and that scares me for some reason

https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j3388

The reassuring study message for clinicians and women who are taking antidepressants and planning pregnancy or who are pregnant was that more than 95% of women in the study who took antidepressants did not have a child with autism spectrum disorder. Rai and colleagues estimated that even if the association between antidepressant use and autism is causal, and with all other factors equal, then only 2% of cases would be prevented if no women with psychiatric disorders used antidepressants during pregnancy.9 Although such a small risk within a population might seem too high from an individual’s perspective, it must be carefully weighed against the substantial health consequences associated with untreated depression.

We have to question whether 8 million people in a population of 65m actually need ADs. As a percentage its even higher among some age brackets as few children are on them.

If the way we live our lives and the expectations we are placing on ourselves are creating such a huge need for these drugs, there is something badly wrong with our society. It is very telling that prescription rates are often very high in deprived areas. Drugs cannot be the solution to poverty.

They failed to mention that type one diabetics who have anxiety or depression are less likely to suffer limb loss, eye sight problems or incontinence issues if they remain on ADs throughout their treatment.

Partyringy hear hear. A lot of the "stress" and "anxiety" isn't clinical. Its a perfectly fucking normal response to bad situations. If you are a teacher with a back breaking mortgage and rates about to rise, and a government that won't fucking pay you, you are going to be anxious. And stressed.

If you lived in an area with traditional manual occupations and haven't had access to opportunities to upskill and have spent the last 20 years watching jobs you can do disappear, you are going to feel low.

If you are a teenager living a social media storm yoyoing between obesity fears and anorexia, surrounded by photoshopped images of people who are paid to spend hours daily curating their appearance, you are not going to feel good about yourself.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling bitchy and moody, maybe we have every reason to feel those things? The pressure to be perfectly pleasant at all times is deeply unhealthy. Half the issues we face are because of the stifling of authentic expression and feeling. Being on all of the time, expecting somehow to be ‘happy’ or cheerful at least.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling bitchy and moody, maybe we have every reason to feel those things? The pressure to be perfectly pleasant at all times is deeply unhealthy

Gcall bang on. Also those emotions tell us important things. I got massively stressed last year and realised my job was making me miserable. I didn't need ADs. I needed to change job!! I did and voila.

My family gp tried to put elderly grandparent on ADs 2 months after loss of spouse of 60 years. It was not depression it was a massive bereavement. Grandparent just needed time and tbh felt they'd lived a full live & were ready to go themselves, which is actually fine when you are ninety.

I'm too afraid to come off my escitalopram, I have CPTSD and spent years feeling suicidal and having hallucinations and hearing voices before I was diagnosed.

I can't just get a stress free life, I have a very high pressure job and live on my own so there is nobody to pay my bills but me.
Now I've got this documentary to worry about. My psychiatrist wants me to take double the dose but I stick to 10 mgs because otherwise I feel dead.

I work within the environmental industry. I am outside every day in nature. I swim in the sea, walk for miles, eat well, engage with nature. I am still on sertraline. There are quite a few people I know within this industry with mental health issues that aren’t fixed by a walk in the woods.

Of course our lifestyle has a huge impact on our mental health, but there are times when only medical intervention can help. As much as I absolutely love it, Nature doesn’t solve depression alone.

Close relative has been on ADs and also anti-psychotics for decades. (Has never been psychotic)

She seems to have no feelings at all now. No interest in anything. No motivation to do anything except watch tv all day. Cannot relate to other people. Takes no joy in anything.

Drugs were given after a bereavement. She should have had counselling, possibly CBT, and should have been encouraged to form healthy routines and social relationships. Instead, she was dumped on these drugs and left for years. GP never even held regular medicine reviews until now.

It's a tragedy and there is nothing the family can do now.

Dr Chatterjee talks a lot about this. Not just with mental issues but physical issues too. His methods aren’t to medicate but to address the issues in your life. Problems can often arise as physical issues when the problem is not physical, but many doctors prescribe drugs because they don’t have the time to delve into every patients life to work out the source of the problem, but often there are issues in our lives that need addressing.

It feels like the stigma around mental health is still alive and kicking on this thread. Mentally feeling I have to justify being on the tablets as I’m reading some posts.

That’s not to say I don’t think we need more insight and information etc, but this sort of thing seems to just scaremonger not offer solutions. (Though I haven’t watched the programme so I could be misinterpreting).

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I have OCD and anxiety. OCD means I have horrific intrusive thoughts, compulsions (in my case, mental compulsions) and often depression alongside it. I was prescribed Citalopram for this and also health anxiety after my son was born 14 years ago. I’d previously been prescribed Amitriptyline in the late 90’s for similar but without the health anxiety.

I do think Citalopram has caused some issues for me - I have TMJ disorder which, looking back, started around the same time. I’m also diagnosed with ME/CFS and Fibro and even though it’s only my thoughts, I wonder if they’re linked. And the Long QT heart issue is at the back of my mind.

All that said, Citalopram has helped me function and I believe, saved my life. Sometimes I think I ‘shouldn’t’ be on them but that’s because of the stigma more than anything. Because as a PP said, if it was insulin keeping me alive instead of these, no one would bat an eyelid.

If you think you do need them, why in earth are you thinking of stopping based of one programme. And saying 'I deserve to suffer' would absolutely point to the fact you need them because that is scary thing to say. Why would you deserve to suffer?

I actually hate programmes like that because they do tend to gloss over the benefits of AD, if you need them and they benefit you then leave it alone. Yes the withdrawal affects are horrible but if you have no current need to withdraw then why do it?

OP if you have been on ADs for years and see a psychiatrist then that would seem like you do need them. Why let some TV show frighten you, speak to a proper psychiatrist about it but remember all drugs have side effects. People in general don't have a clue about the side effects of some very basic drugs or the side effect of the cardiac medication but still take them for all sorts of ailments. Why risk you MH and potentially life over one documentary? Any documentary is likely to be biased to prove a point and get the ratings in.

I'm quite concerned about you OP. You don't sound in a position to stop medication.
My opinion of panorama has really gone down recently

All that said, Citalopram has helped me function and I believe, saved my life. Sometimes I think I ‘shouldn’t’ be on them but that’s because of the stigma more than anything. Because as a PP said, if it was insulin keeping me alive instead of these, no one would bat an eyelid.

It’s definitely because of stigma. We still have people who claim that these issues didn’t used to exist, suggest they’re made up etc. But there has been evidence of mental illness for thousands of years, the problem is how we view it. If we viewed mental health in the same way we do many physical ailments then we wouldn’t have issues where people feel stigma. We need to talk more openly about mental health and how we’re feeling and when to get support and where from. I agree with you @GeneHuntsCowboyBoots that there are some terrible things on this thread that could make people turn away from medication they desperately need.

SSRIs are not a placebo, but they are no more effective than placebo.

In other words, you’d have the same effect from a sugar pill

DS is just turned 19. He's autistic with significant mental health difficulties.
CAMHS psychiatrist put him on 20mg of fluoxitine age 17 with no therapy alongside it ( which is against NICE guidelines). Then the psychiatrist discharged him from CAMHS with the advice of 'come off them when you feel ready'
GP won't see DS face to face and he's been struggling with low mood. He won't talk on the phone either. I had an appointment on his behalf a while ago and they've upped him to 40mg a day without an kind of assessment of if MH.
Since the his dose has been upped he's really struggling, even at his special school. We have no access to any specialist in mental health as he does not meet the criteria for the adult mental health team. He was prescribed this without any ongoing support, despite his disability.