Euthasia in cases of severe mental health

[Devon01]

Woman who survived Brussels airport bombing is 'euthanised' in Belgium mol.im/a/11291995 via dailym.ai/android

Yes or no?

So we see someone attempting suicide, we should just leave them to it?

@MynameisJune i think in this case it is a question of capacity though?

a 23 year old is still in many ways immature. And will al no t certainly not be able to understand that it is quite possible that she may heal.

i would have a different view on say a 70 year old with a chronic and massively debilitating physical illness that the 70 year old could realistically assess that - knowing themselves - they would not be able to find sufficient happiness to continue into old age

There have been a small number of times in my life when I was younger when I totally woulD have done this. And I have no doubt I would been able to be articulate and demonstrate that I had capacity - but that psssed and I healed 🤷‍♀️

Agree

I also don't think most people have the slightest comprehension of what a mass casualty situation means.

The most casulties I've had to deal with in one incident, was 3 time critical patients (one died at scene, one in hospital, one survived), there was also a dead family pet. The scene was very spread out. But all the patients were basically intact, in the sense that they all had 4 limbs and a head attached to their torso and all their organs still inside. I was extensively trained had a decade of experience and was in my 30s.

This poor women was a 17yo schoolgirl. What she witnessed was a magnitude of 16X what I saw, and even that was quite overwhelming, 3 is a lot of bodies, 35 fatalities and many many seriously injured, is unfathomable. Many of these bodies will have been torn apart by the blast with limbs and organs all over the place.

If she had severe PTSD and was reliving this in flashbacks and in nightmares, every day and every night for 7 years, then forcing her to continue in that hell because you don't get it, or are squemish about it because she was only 23 is something to reflect on yourself and not a reason for preventing mentally ill people form taking control of their lives and deaths.

If it was legalised why not allow the means on the NHS to ensure that it wasn't botched or painful.

I think having significant mental health problems necessarily precludes the ability to consent to death. I only support assisted suicide where there is an imminent (less than 6 months) probability of death due to physical injury. But I’ve suffered severe mental health problems and haven’t been suicidal for a fair few years now, so perhaps I’m biased.

I had a traumatic experience and for over a year I was suicidal. Genuinely it feels like it happened to another person now, years later. I was utterly horrified reading this. This kind for thing is the reason why I can’t support euthanasia.

I was suicidal for years, I no longer feel that way but still a firmly of the opinion that it is my life, if I want to end it, I should have the right. Sometimes it is the most sensible option. Why continue to live a painful unhappy life if you don't have to?

And do you have anything to say to those of us who do understand PTSD (via our lived experienced), who have experienced traumatic situations including death and have recovered because the brain has plasticity and doesn't have to stay stuck?

No one is suggesting that this young woman wasn't terribly traumatised. People are questioning whether that was a necessarily terminal state at the age of 23.

@EgonSpengler2020 because you don't get it, or are squemish about it because she was only 23 is something to reflect on yourself and not a reason for preventing mentally ill people form taking control of their lives and

Of course the majority of people are not going to 'get it' or be squeamish because the majority of people have (thankfully) not been through such experiences, either as a casualty or a professional. But they are still entitled to an opinion. Can people like you or @tickticksnooze not share experiences or opinions without being negative towards other people's opinions? Is that too hard?

Euthanasia and assisted suicide are entirely different.
Neither is legal the U.K.
Euthanasia is unlikely to be accepted anywhere but in extremely regressive and oppressive regimes. Even then it is hidden.
A 23 year old with severe mental I’ll health does not feel like a suitable candidate for assisted suicide.

@onethirtyfive well said. I'm sorry if these are things you've experienced - if so, you should be so proud of yourself for fighting through and seeing light at the end such dark times

This is an internet forum and I am disagreeing with you and giving my opinion too. It's kind of the idea.

Just out of interest if she had been 40 when the bomb went off, not 17, how long would she need to suffer before she was allowed to access a dignified assisted suicide?

I support the right to choose to end your own life & if she had the mental capacity to make the decision then that is up to her. Unless someone has suffered severe mental health problems then they gave no idea of how bad it can become.

I agree with this.

She didn’t want to live in pain anymore, it was her choice and I hope she is now at peace

I don’t know what to think

it’s news to me that this is a thing in Belgium though.

I do agree with this but wondering what the safeguards and procedures are.

Euthanasia for mental health is one I have difficulty getting behind, there was a woman a few years ago, whose sons were both killed in accidents within a year or two of each other, and she was euthanised for depression. I think it's a really slippery slope from terminal illness, to life long condition euthanasia. The woman with tinnitus who also successfully applied for euthanasia also made me uncomfortable. I had no issue with terminal diseases, but I am finding myself less pro some of the more current decisions.

@CaronPoivre Euthanasia and assisted suicide are entirely different.
Neither is legal the U.K.

Euthanasia is unlikely to be accepted anywhere but in extremely regressive and oppressive regimes. Even then it is hidden

Thank you for clarifying that point but I was already aware of the difference and I don't think anyone was disputing it or thought that either was legal in UK.

As to the regressive and oppressive regime comments, some of the countries (listed below) are not really considered either regressive or oppressive. And I don't think any of them hide the fact that it is legal. I think some people would consider countries who do allow euthanasia as quite forward thinking:

As of November 2021, euthanasia is legal in Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Spain and several states of Australia (New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia

Why @SD1978 ?

Genuine question, if people are really struggling with their mental health and have gone through enormous suffering, why is that any different?

Same.

I have complex ptsd due to severe childhood trauma. I am 41 now and there have been times in my life - including aged 23, the same age as the woman in the article- that I have been absolutely suicidal. To the point I’ve been under psychiatric care and on a dose of antidepressants they don’t even prescribe anymore. I genuinely thought I couldn’t carry on. And yet here I am, relatively happy aged 41. No medication. I still suffer flashbacks and anxiety. My Mum died in 2019 which helped. But otherwise I don’t know, maybe my age and just wandering through life navigating things as an older person ?? I don’t know. I feel 23 is really young to make the decision to end things and yet at the same thing I believe someone’s life belongs to them and they should have the right to end that life peacefully if they wish. Just very sad all round.

I've had severe mental health and been suicidal before. If I had been allowed to choose euthanasia, I would not be here loving life less than a year later.

I don't think these cases are that problematic. They are untreatable and extremely distressing conditions (you can't bring that women's kids back). Give the people personal choice and bodily autonomy.

The cases that concern me are within insurance based health systems, with chronic but not terminal conditions which could be managed if the money was available to do so, but when people are poor and uninsured the suffering is too much and assisted dying is the only option within their budget.

I don’t consider euthanasia forward thinking. Why do you say that OP?