Would depression make you say things you didn't truly feel?

[TheyThinkItsAllDone]

I'm a long time poster but changed name for this and probably another thread in relationships.

My husband has probably a long term history of depression. We've been together about 28 years and had our ups and downs which in retrospect have probably been down to depression that he wasn't treating and I had no clue.

About 4 or 5 years ago we had a big fight and he then said he was depressed and initially was refusing to do anything about it. I basically said that I wasn't willing to stay together and have that inflicted on myself and our now teenage sons.

He went to the GP and was prescribed ADs. He was on them up until about a year ago. He didn't like being on them, but home life was much better. He decided that he didn't need them anymore and spent about 6 months coming off slowly. He had some agitation and anger issues initially but sort of stabilised.

Anyway roll forward to the weekend and his favourite topic is how DSs need to get jobs (they do) one just finished uni and the other heading into his final year.

Upshot of the conversation was that he was furious and wanted to go and tell (shout at) eldest (has a lot of anxiety, probably ND) that he needed to make more effort and that we were not giving him any money. I didn't necessarily disagree but I did say that he might not want to speak to him in the manner he was as it wasn't a good way to be speaking to people. Well that was just a spark to a petrol tank. I've apparently been a shit wife for 20 years, also a shit parent, accused of not wanting DC to move out and they are a disappointment to him as well. For reference DC2 lives away and came home for a couple of days for his 21st. A birthday that he didn't even ask what we were getting him or doing and as DC travelled home on his actual birthday and husband didn't see him, he didn't even text him to wish him a happy birthday.

Anyway, I'm done. We are getting towards retirement and I don't want to think about spending the next 20/30 years with someone who resents our children and thinks he doesn't get enough attention. To be fair he probably doesn't but its a vicious circle/cycle in that I'm not particularly attracted to someone who is so self centred.

Would being depressed make you say things that you didn't believe or just mean that you let them out in your anger?

yes depression can come with delusion and paranoia

he may have been having a bad day

He may have genuinely thought these things

His thoughts may be a reflection of how he views himself

If you will struggle to move past this get couples counselling

Thank you, that's what I needed to know.

The ball is in his court then. I'm prepared to give anything a shot if it's not clear that at heart he dislikes his children.

If that's how he genuinely feels, illness aside, then I'm done.

We've basically not spoken since just to let things calm down but not speaking isn't a solution.

In general I'm finding his behaviour manipulative and self centred and looking back, I think this has been a theme, but then I also think he has been depressed most of the time.

I'm not saying I'm perfect BTW.

The point is that he has not done enough to address his depression, and it has made your life shit. So, do you think this will ever change? Do you want to spend the later years of your life managing this behaviour? Because that is what you have been doing - managing it, because he is not.

Yep, that's pretty much what I said during the argument. That I wasn't prepared to spend the next 20 to 30 years living in a toxic atmosphere.

The few years he was on the ADs we got on the best we ever have apart from obviously the courting years. I think his issue is that it affected his libido and even though he is off them now, I'm not really interested.

I don't think I do show him the affection he wants but that's not how my family were and honestly he doesn't really do things that make me feel affectionate towards him.

I actually don't even feel upset at the fact it is pretty much done and over, that's probably a sign in itself.

I think it is. Listen to your gut and start planning a life without him. And, good luck - it'll be worth it!

Thank you. I just need to work out how to make the next steps happen.

I'm not at the point where I feel the need to not see him ever again, but I'd like to live apart and independently and see how things go. Life is always complicated but we are in the middle of financially planning our retirement so I need to work out if the actions I'm going to be taking are fair and reasonable and workable.

I'm the higher earner and always have been but am the younger so whilst my pension benefits will be the larger source of income, in the shorter term we were planning for some reliance on his pension to allow me to retire earlier. I'm sure it's still workable though. Life isn't all about money though.

Mental health issues can be devastating to relationships. My brother’s marriage is currently on the rocks due to what started as depression last winter, then because he refused to seek help his illness descended into delusions, paranoia and some psychotic behaviour. It was only when he became a danger to himself that he agreed to receive help from the crisis team. He’s slowly (and it will be a very long process) starting to improve.
Unfortunately I’m not sure his marriage will survive, his wife has been to hell and back with this. But none of us would judge her.

Thank you, I truly hope your brother takes the treatment he needs and improves his life going forward.

I had some time off last year with work stress and undertook some counselling and have reduced my hours and duties and am really now back to my old self, but it has opened my eyes to both sides here. It can be hard to know how to get yourself out of the hole that you're in but equally it's given me a bit of an insight into recognising when I'm being manipulated.

OH once told me (pre kids) that when he was out on his motorbike he sometimes thought about riding it into a wall.

Having depression and anxiety is not an excuse or a reason to be an arse to others.

You are allowed to live your life without walking on eggshells in case it upsets Lord Droopy Jaws.

You gave him decades of love and support. You don't have to dedicate a single extra minute to him when he refuses to help himself or make life a teeny tiny bit nicer for you after everything you've done already.

I'd leave and go live my best retirement without him.

Thank you Fartsock. That is very true. It's my day off today and i've spent most of the day looking at property. To be fair I have been looking anyway. Another argument point I guess. I'm happy to downsize but he is even more keen. However, DS1 (22) still lives at home. He's sort of finished Uni. He was supposed to do a masters year but couldn't get a placement so can't continue but still hasn't graduated and still doesn't know what award his degree will be etc. He should be looking for jobs both permanent and just anything really but I get that he's anxious etc. and probably isn't putting as much effort in as he needs. It's not laziness. DS1 lives away at Uni and is being supported by us. he still has a year to go and we both agree that he needs to be getting a part time job and he says he's been looking but again I don't know how hard and that might be laziness. So my point is that, at the moment we still need to allow for accommodating both of them as they are not financially independent, so if we are looking now then we might need a property bigger than we might ultimately need. If we only want to move one more time then it's bigger now or wait and get smaller. He wants to stop giving DS1 any money ( we give him £250 a month) on the basis he isn't a student anymore. Again I don't necessarily disagree but I don't think this will actually have any effect as DS1 isn't money orientated and doesn't really spend much. Personally I'm delighted that he's started going out occasionally and don't want to discourage this. And actually we don't need the money and if I'm being really pedantic, as I earn a fair bit more, it's probably my earnings that support both DC. I don't think he sees the irony that I've supported and contributed more financially than he has so he's definitely had benefit from that.

But I'm now accused of having put my children first for the last 20 years and also that I don't want them to leave home and be independent. Honestly he sounds like a jealous child and this is not an attractive quality obviously.

Anyway, now I'm probably just ranting on for no good reason.

STBXH was like this. More subtle than what your H said but things were difficult because I was critical, not supportive enough…etc. In the end, I realised that nothing I ever did would be good enough or motivate him to change. I ended the marriage but he had given up long ago.
What’s interesting is that since we split he’s now sought medical help for his health problems, sexual health issues and had counselling. Sure his new girlfriend is reaping the benefits 🙄 He just didn’t want to try for me.
Honestly though, I’m happier on my own.

My ex said a range of things which he subsequently attributed to his depression - that I was fat, lazy, unlikeable, had no friends because I was so unlikeable...the list goes on. I begged him to seek support but he refused, and I eventually left him because I couldn't actually forget the things he'd said, and he couldn't understand why I wouldn't put the past behind us and move on.

Ultimately though, whilst he was depressed (actually I think he has a personality disorder, but that's a different story!), he used that depression as an excuse to emotionally, financially and, occasionally, to physically abuse me.

So in short; it's not really about whether they can say things when depressed that they might not mean - it's whether you can forget those things once he's said them. I couldn't.

I'm sorry about the shit you've both been subjected to.

You're right, I can't forget the things or the attitude behind the things. I thought I'd forgiven him for a lot of the things he's said in the past as I guess I thought it was my fault. I haven't rewritten the past but I see things with a fresh eye.

It's hard to change mindset, I'm already feeling sorry for him even though I'm angry and disappointed and still thinking whether he is right about lots of things.

I know none of us is perfect, but I thought we were friends and on the same page but who wouldn't be proud of DC that are genuinely nice people who've worked hard and are doing well at Uni? Apparently anyone can get a degree and it's nothing special?

Ex-DP never had a nice word to say about anyone, including most members of his own family. And God forbid that they did well in something - it used to cause him genuine anger if they bought a house, or got a decent job. It was always attributable to someone else giving them a leg-up, he could never allow someone to have done well for themselves.

If he isn't open to therapy then where do you see this going for you? I really mean that in a kindly way. I realised that I was potentially going to be with DP for another 40 years, and I could face it. Don't allow yourself to lapse into sympathy for him - he's relying on that. It's a control mechanism.

Yep, he once told me that he didn't like his own son. I should have ended it then to be honest, we are talking about a young child at that point.

Honestly I think I'm done. I haven't told him that yet. We haven't interacted that much to be fair. He was on a later shift. I didn't come down in the morning until he'd left. He came home and went "awrite". I left him to it. He did some exercise in the garage, heated up the dinner I'd plated and then watched TV while I hung out in the study.

I think he thinks it will just blow over, he might even apologise but I don't think I'm having that.

I just need to work out the logistics and then I guess have a conversation.

I'm glad to hear about all the positive outcomes. I'm 56, I have no interest in having another relationship but I do want to be able to just relax. I'm writing out the pros and cons and the pros are basically getting rid of spiders and driving (I drive locally but I'm a bit anxious about further afield). The cons list is much bigger.

We actually got along pretty well when he was on his ADs which is sort of throwing me. If he went back on them or did something positive I'm sure we'd probably be the same again. But, I guess now the genie is out the lamp and I'm not sure that it's enough. I'm not sure if he will offer. It's down to him but I don't see it as an ultimatum on my side telling him he needs to go on ADs and we'll stay together. I have no right to tell him that he needs to medicate himself. But I do have a right not to be in a toxic relationship.

I think the fact you feel so calm about the prospect of separating is very telling. I also think I wouldn't want to be with someone who spoke like he has done about his children.

Sorry your going through this op. Your a mother of course you will be there for your children adults or not. I hope you can make the right decision for yourself.

Thanks folks. I do feel pretty calm but nervous about where this leads.

In the past I'd have been a crying wreck. Although it was work related rather than home related, when I was off with stress and up until about half way through my last lot of counselling after I'd returned to work, I was still crying at virtually every meeting I had when talking about my stress. Then something just clicked and I felt better. I'm wondering if my mindset is just changed now and I'm just less emotional in general.

What I am is very tired though, my brain hasn't stopped mulling all this since Saturday. In a way I'm feeling like I'm grieving for the future I'm not going to have but realistically I wasn't going to get that anyway. Everything other than what he wanted to do was always so much of an effort.

He told me it wasn't his job to make me happy and I should take care of that myself, I also don't think it was his job to make me unhappy. I'm actually pretty low maintainance, it doesn't take a lot to make me happy.

I felt similar when I split from my H. He even commented that I wasn’t crying much..but I’d done all my crying in the weeks and months before when he rejected me, said cruel things to me. You definitely grieve that future you were expecting and didn’t have. I genuinely believed when we got married we would never split…I thought we’d grow old together. 7 months on, I’m much calmer and happier in myself. I’m still sad for what we lost but I know with certainty that it was the right decision.

I don't have any advice relationship wise because I don't really have any experience, not long term 10years plus anyway.

But I have been depressed for a lot of my life, starting in my teens and finally, since I turned 40 I seem to have either learned how to deal with it effectively or it genuinely has gone.
I'm not on ADs and haven't been for years and still have my moments, but then I think they're pretty normal moments that everyone has.

I have said some horrible things in the past, things that I regret deeply, and not for just one reason really. Some of them were because I wanted to hurt that person, I don't even know why, maybe to make someone else feel the way I did? Or because I wanted them to understand how I felt and didn't think they did? I know I said them, and I know I didn't believe them myself. Partly it was maybe because I wanted to feel better about myself and I tried to make others less perfect so I could believe I wasn't that bad?

Other times I said awful things that I believed because of the paranoia, you become incredibly self orientated when depressed because it's so overwhelming and you can't see a different perspective, I didn't understand why I felt so terrible about myself, so I sought to find a reason and other people and the way they treat you are the obvious one, so I built small and actually unimportant things that other people did or said into them hating me, to them making my life a misery to explain why I felt so bad, and reacted to that, rather than what was actually happening or being said.

I do feel now like I was allowed to 'get away' with a lot of stuff because I had a diagnosis, and although I needed understanding and compassion, I also needed to be encouraged to confront my own behaviour and take responsibility for it, depression or not. I actually think part of the illnesses is not accepting responsibility for your own behaviour, though this isn't intentional, it's to try and stop feeling so unhappy and miserable about yourself and who you are if you can label it as not your fault.

It's so incredibly hard on those close to you, and you cannot separate them needing to take care of their own mental health or rejecting you because you're just so awful - if any of that makes any sense?

Ultimately someone with depression still needs to try, be that therapy, medication, explanations and apologies and not hide behind the diagnosis.
I am also wondering if your DH can see some of himself and his problems in your DSs and is frightened, thinking he can 'push' them out of it.

I also don't think anyone should be duty bound to stay with someone for any reason and think that if you feel this way then you should follow how you feel and do what you need to for your own happiness.

Thanks worm.

Maverickness, that's a really good insight. He has said many times that he should never have had children and I know he does blame himself for their being a failure in his own eyes. We both come from poor backgrounds and were independent before we were out of our teens. He went back to education as an adult (twice) and I thought we were on the same page about giving our DC the opportunities that we never had.

We aren't rich, probably about spot on average, but our wants and needs are pretty modest. DC aren't spoiled but they've never wanted for anything. The don't have the need and drive to earn as they've never been without. That said, they never ask for anything and are also very modest in their wants and needs.

In retrospect we both should have pushed them more to have part time work but there was anxiety and covid etc etc.

We don't need the money we give them. We have agreed many times that we don't want to be too asset rich in our latter years to just give to the tax man etc. I'd rather see it being used and enjoyed.

He said all he thinks about is them not being independent. I agree it's a concern but it's not normal to be so focused on that at this point. I told him that.

What I am struggling with is this recurring theme about the DC and his general attitude to them. He'll put on the face with them and be Mr matey but at the end of the day his actions speak more and he resents doing anything for them that they could do themselves.

I know the pain I felt when I was ill, how I was letting people down and that I felt useless so it's hard to think about someone that you love/d and cared for and have been in a relationship with for nearly 30 years being in that pain. I know it can be hard to get out of it when you are in it. But I'm struggling to get past that this is the way he feels and its the depression that's letting it out rather than the feelings being part of the illness.

I'm really glad that you are feeling so much better. I think it's definitely possible to have a short term issue and get better, not everyone has a chronic condition.

In answer to your original question, I think so. My mother used to say the most awful things to the people she loved, me and her amazing best friend (I suppose she felt safe doing so, though she was lucky that her best friend didn't walk away) and it was the depression talking and she'd forget all about what she'd said - not that we could, of course. We knew she didn't actually mean it, but it was hard and I sympathize.

I'm sorry you experienced that. How do you know she didn't mean it?